Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Hobbit book future editions with movie elements?
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

2ndBreffest
The Shire


Sep 21, 12:29pm

Post #1 of 34 (1590 views)
Shortcut
Hobbit book future editions with movie elements? Can't Post

Peter Jackson's delightful take on the book included many new characters and scenarios and dialogue which in many many ways improved the story I know many here would agree. I was just thinking wouldn't it be nice to see future editons of the book be reworked to include some of these changes? The barrell scene for example was sooo boring in the book, but in the movie it was amazing! What do you think?


(This post was edited by 2ndBreffest on Sep 21, 12:31pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 21, 2:24pm

Post #2 of 34 (1530 views)
Shortcut
No. [In reply to] Can't Post

By the Valar, no. The book is the book and the films are the films. Let never the twain should meet. Tolkien himself abandoned a massive revision of The Hobbit because it would have changed the book so much as to make it a different story altogether.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 21, 2:25pm)


2ndBreffest
The Shire


Sep 21, 2:56pm

Post #3 of 34 (1520 views)
Shortcut
But [In reply to] Can't Post

what about that incredible scene where the white orc guy literally flies up through the ice and 12 feet into the air! I'm sure that scene could be written in Tolkein style language enough so the purists won't be too upset. Maybe the 'anything down the trousers" line could be left out, but the awesome dragon slaying seige ballista weapon would have to stay...its too awesome not to!


skyofcoffeebeans
Rivendell

Sep 21, 3:11pm

Post #4 of 34 (1516 views)
Shortcut
Fortunately [In reply to] Can't Post

It exists, and you can go read it, and we can lock this godforsaken thread. Buy them here:

https://www.amazon.com/Hobbit-Unexpected-Journey-Movie-Storybook-ebook/dp/B0089YAB1W/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1537542606&sr=1-2&keywords=Hobbit+storybook
https://www.amazon.com/Hobbit-Desolation-Smaug-Movie-Storybook-ebook/dp/B00I7JFC7M/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1537542606&sr=1-1&keywords=Hobbit+storybook
https://www.amazon.com/Hobbit-Battle-Armies-Movie-Storybook/dp/0544422880/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1537542606&sr=1-3&keywords=Hobbit+storybook


2ndBreffest
The Shire


Sep 21, 6:31pm

Post #5 of 34 (1503 views)
Shortcut
oh [In reply to] Can't Post

if only this existed back when I was assigned to read The Hobbit for summer reading! Oh well, at least the future generations will have this option!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 21, 8:08pm

Post #6 of 34 (1488 views)
Shortcut
Azog the Pale Orc [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
what about that incredible scene where the white orc guy literally flies up through the ice and 12 feet into the air! I'm sure that scene could be written in Tolkein style language enough so the purists won't be too upset. Maybe the 'anything down the trousers" line could be left out, but the awesome dragon slaying seige ballista weapon would have to stay...its too awesome not to!


You mean the Orc who has been dead for over one hundred years before the start of the Quest of Erebor? And I can't get too excited over the Windlance that is destroyed before it can actually be used against Smaug--or over the improvised crossbow that should have never been able to work that Bard fashioned out of his broken bow (and his son).

Be happy that there are the movie storybooks. They seem to be close enough to what you want! Wink

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Chen G.
Rivendell

Sep 21, 8:28pm

Post #7 of 34 (1487 views)
Shortcut
Is that the ONLY reason, though? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Tolkien himself abandoned a massive revision of The Hobbit because it would have changed the book so much as to make it a different story altogether.

Frown

Iím not sure that reason alone explains it. I think Tolkien would have come through with his revised The Hobbit - had he not been Tolkien. The writer had the habit of hopping between works and never quite finishing.

His only finished works are those he was being urged to finish by his publishers.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 21, 9:18pm

Post #8 of 34 (1479 views)
Shortcut
The 1960 revision [In reply to] Can't Post

The reasons behind Tolkien's abandonment of his 1960 revision are pretty well documented. Here is just one story about it. I've read the existing text of it, as far as it goes.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 21, 9:19pm)


2ndBreffest
The Shire


Sep 21, 9:53pm

Post #9 of 34 (1462 views)
Shortcut
yes that one [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm really glad Peter Jackson gave him a second chance because he is really cool and Thorin needed a bad guy to fight at the end. I know I'm not alone here in getting real excited when Bard whipped up that improvised dragon killing device! I was standing on my seat in the theater at that part! It was a hightlight for sure!!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 22, 12:26am

Post #10 of 34 (1445 views)
Shortcut
You are very forgiving! [In reply to] Can't Post

While you were standing on your seat, I was rolling my eyes thinking, "That contraption would never work!" And the only reason it did work is because filmmakers cheat.

Don't get me wrong, there was much that I did like about the Hobbit movies. But many other things irritated me or worse.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Chen G.
Rivendell

Sep 22, 9:07am

Post #11 of 34 (1394 views)
Shortcut
To be fair, filmmakers cheat all the time [In reply to] Can't Post

Filmmaking isn't about each individual beat in the work: its about the overall impression.

Even Christopher Nolan's notoriously grounded Batman films have contrivances, especially when it comes to how the characters endure certain perils. The Empire Strikes Back, a movie we discussed previously and another moderately-grounded take on a fantasy, has an inexplicable escape at the end, etcetra; The Lord of the Rings has a few of those. In Apocalypto, the hero takes an arrow to the stomach and keeps running, and later takes one to the shoulder, to little consequence.

The point is, if those contrivances or death-defying moments are brief enough and spread-out wide enough (which, thanks to the extended running-time of The Hobbit, I'd say they are) they can be more than excused.

Would I stage Smaug demise like that? No. Do I mind it that much? Also no.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Sep 22, 9:09am)


Paulo Gabriel
The Shire

Sep 22, 12:37pm

Post #12 of 34 (1363 views)
Shortcut
I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

No offense, but Otaku-sempai is somewhat nitpicking.


(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Sep 22, 12:38pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 22, 1:24pm

Post #13 of 34 (1356 views)
Shortcut
Yes, filmmakers do cheat. [In reply to] Can't Post

I can often overlook those cheats when they are pulled off with enough skill and panache. I resent them when they make me feel like the director is disrespecting the intelligence of the audience, treating us like idiots. I don't accept that in a novelist and don't see why a director should get a pass for the same sin.

I am also understanding if a change is made out of necessity, such as the Master of Lake-town perishing during Smaug's attack because Stephen Fry would be unavailable for the extensive shoots needed for The Battle of the Five Armies. Things happen.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 22, 1:34pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 22, 1:28pm

Post #14 of 34 (1355 views)
Shortcut
I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
No offense, but Otaku-sempai is somewhat nitpicking.


Yes, I am. I freely admit it. I don't like storytellers treating me as if I'm stupid, regardless of whether it is in a book, a film or some other medium.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


2ndBreffest
The Shire


Sep 22, 5:41pm

Post #15 of 34 (1317 views)
Shortcut
I agree, but cheating was necessary here [In reply to] Can't Post

since the book is totally boring, the great Peter Jackson took the initiative to throw it out almost completely and practically rewrite the entire story to make it palatable to todays movie going audiences! Sure, audiences back in Tolkien's day might have thought Peter Jackson's alterations were unrealistic and idiotic, but people today like that sort of thing. So basically, what I'm saying is that while a small number of people will likely take offense to Peter Jackson's "dumbing down" of the narrative and resent being spoken down to, so to speak, the wider audience will not even realize what is going on.


(This post was edited by 2ndBreffest on Sep 22, 5:52pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 22, 6:43pm

Post #16 of 34 (1304 views)
Shortcut
Book-firster, though I do understand how adaptations work. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll grant you that even Tolkien himself regretted that The Hobbit was so 'twee' in places, though he decided that a full rewrite would do more harm than good.


In Reply To
since the book is totally boring, the great Peter Jackson took the initiative to throw it out almost completely and practically rewrite the entire story to make it palatable to todays movie going audiences! Sure, audiences back in Tolkien's day might have thought Peter Jackson's alterations were unrealistic and idiotic, but people today like that sort of thing. So basically, what I'm saying is that while a small number of people will likely take offense to Peter Jackson's "dumbing down" of the narrative and resent being spoken down to, so to speak, the wider audience will not even realize what is going on.


I'm not quite sure where I would fall on your scale since The Hobbit was published a year before either of my parents were born, and Tolkien passed away when I was barely in my teens. I did manage to read the book before the animated tv special was made; I discovered The Lord of the Rings in junior high school, before either Ralph Bakshi's movie or the Return of the King animated special came out.

So, any thoughts on Amazon's upcoming Middle-earth series? I still suspect that the first season will focus on Aragorn, but subsequent seasons might tell other stories of the Third (and maybe Second) Age.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 22, 6:52pm)


2ndBreffest
The Shire


Sep 22, 7:54pm

Post #17 of 34 (1288 views)
Shortcut
Just having a laugh [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't really think The Hobbit book is boring at all, quite the contrary! As far as the Amazon series goes, I think your guess is a good one. I doubt fans of the literature will be their main concern, rather they are going to keep it as close to the movies of Peter Jackson as possible with or without his involvement. So that being said, I expect they will stick to the characters movie fans will be familiar with, or at the very least characters that are connected to known characters or were at least mentioned at some point. It will look like the Middle-earth of Peter Jackson, and feature the same modernized language and simplified dialogue. Since there really isn't that much for them to work with as far as written material goes, they will have to make up a bunch of stuff and it will have a very fan-fictiony feel to it and probably come across to most as a GoT rip-off. I think the most that can be hoped for is a "good" GoT rip-off, and not much else. To Tolkien fans who are hoping for something more, I wouldn't get too excited.


(This post was edited by 2ndBreffest on Sep 22, 7:57pm)


Chen G.
Rivendell

Sep 22, 9:22pm

Post #18 of 34 (1268 views)
Shortcut
Game of Thrones ripoff? [In reply to] Can't Post

This series is the genuine article: the original. Both in terms of source material (a major influence on Game of Thrones) and in terms of bringing it to the big screen: without the precedent of The Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones wouldn't have made the splash that it did.

In the very recent season of Game of Thrones, they had the most obvious ripoff of all times with of the Black Arrow from The Desolation of Smaug.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Sep 22, 9:24pm)


2ndBreffest
The Shire


Sep 22, 10:02pm

Post #19 of 34 (1259 views)
Shortcut
I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

What I meant is that to the casual viewer with no prior interest in the works of Tolkien previous to the movies of Peter Jackson, the Amazon series will likely come across this way. It will almost certainly lack the richness of language and dialogue of Tolkien's work and will more closely resemble that of the GoT television series which will guarantee comparisons between the two.


Paulo Gabriel
The Shire

Sep 23, 12:32pm

Post #20 of 34 (1156 views)
Shortcut
The funny thing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that no one complains (or almost no one does) when the same things were done in the Lord of The Rings movies, including the obvious 'dumbing down' of the story.


(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Sep 23, 12:33pm)


Mari D.
The Shire


Sep 23, 12:41pm

Post #21 of 34 (1154 views)
Shortcut
Hm ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I would both like and not like it ;-)

-> I would not like it because I think respect for an author's work and skill commands not to alter a novel, and not to too quickly assume that you can match the quality
-> I would like it because I would find it interesting as far as the "literary experiment" aspect is concerned ;-)

Very interesting that further down the thread you say that the barrel scene is so boring in the book.This is especially why I liked it, the element of escaping in wine barrels was original to me, and the quiet, secretive ride down the river gave it its special atmosphere that I liked.

Funny that also, you find it boring how Bard slew the dragon; I especially liked that scene in the books because to let a character who has just been introduced do the awaited great deed, I found refreshingly unconventional.

But all that is not to say I don't accept you have different views on it ... thanks for sharing your thoughts!


(This post was edited by Mari D. on Sep 23, 12:42pm)


Mari D.
The Shire


Sep 23, 12:43pm

Post #22 of 34 (1147 views)
Shortcut
Yeah ... me neither. :-) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 23, 7:21pm

Post #23 of 34 (1115 views)
Shortcut
True. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is that no one complains (or almost no one does) when the same things were done in the Lord of The Rings movies, including the obvious 'dumbing down' of the story.


That might be because Jackson's LotR movies work better purely as adaptations and don't add nearly as much new material. But I'm only guessing.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 23, 8:13pm

Post #24 of 34 (1095 views)
Shortcut
I once tried to create a poll [In reply to] Can't Post

on which PJ/Boyens/Walsh-created scenes in LOTR were the most favoured and soon realised that there's a lot more in those movies than I had realised. I think the new material in LOTR, for the most part, sit more naturally within Tolkien's story than the new material did in The Hobbit films.

After all, in book-FOTR Frodo didn't fall down and lose the Ring on Caradhras, prompting Boromir to pick it up and start to lose himself to the Ring's siren call with Aragorn a twitch away from *making* him give back the Ring, but I'll happily debate that this scene beautifully deepens the already existing tensions within the Fellowship.

I can't think of a similar scene in The Hobbit movies. Maybe, perhaps, the acorn discussion between Bilbo and Thorin?

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Sep 24, 3:23am)


Paulo Gabriel
The Shire

Sep 24, 4:42am

Post #25 of 34 (1044 views)
Shortcut
Or that might be... [In reply to] Can't Post

because people don't really pay attention to these movies -- either LOTR or Hobbit. Wink

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.