Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
How will GDT face the issue of talking beasts?

_V_
Lorien


May 2 2008, 4:51pm


Views: 480
Shortcut
How will GDT face the issue of talking beasts? Can't Post

A major issue I feel in the Prequel Duology is that of the "talking beasts" of Middle-earth. Now Middle-earth is not Narnia, but there are a handful of talking animals. And sometimes critics deride this as too "children-movie" and "unserious"....this in an Oscar-winning series with talking tree-men!

I speak primarily of the Great Eagles and Gwaihir the Windlord. They already appeared in the LOTR trilogy, but Jackson kind of side-stepped the issue by simply avoiding depictions of Gwaihir talking. Gwaihir just silently picks Gandalf up from Orthanc in FOTR, and then again wordlessly appears in ROTK.

Gwaihir actually has speaking lines in the book, but Jackson simply cut them out (asking Gandalf where to take him from Moria and Gandalf saying Lothlorien, etc.)

Nonetheless, the Great Eagles are actually showcased in "The Hobbit". Arguably I think they're one of the main attractions; alone with Smaug, Beorn, and the Mirkwood Spiders. ***I have seen more than a few book-covers of the Hobbit with Bilbo riding an Eagle on the cover.

And Gandalf actaully has running conversations with the Eagles in "The Hobbit" so I don't think this is avoidable.

I don't feel this is odd: they aren't "normal" Eagles. The Great Eagles of Manwe are basically the animal counterpart to the Ents. That is, just as the Ents were created to be guardians of plants, the Eagles were created to be guardians of non-sentient animals (by Yavanna and Manwe)

Furthermore, the Eagles are not the only talking animals in "The Hobbit".

Roac the Raven can talk, and he's the one that relays the information to Thorin & Co. that Smaug has died, and that armies of rivals for the treasure are gathering. The book actually make it a point to say that the Ravens of Ravenhill (a spur of Lonely Mountain) can speak the Common Speach. Further, the Thrush has to actually speak to Bard to tell him of Smaug's weak spot.

I don't include Smaug in this listing, because people kind of expect Dragons to talk, and moreover, he's a magical creature moreso than a "real" animal so the "suspension of disbelief" is at play: audiences expect dragons to be able to talk. ( I must say, though, that the thing that always struck me about Smaug is "he's a man of wealth, and taste" (to quote "Sympathy for the Devil") he's not a raving monster like a Troll....he's refined and actually very witty and intelligent. Arguably I think he's the most nuanced villian that way in the entire series: even Sauron or the Lord of the Nazgul simply don't talk that much; Wormtongue isn't really "charming in an evil way" and Saruman isn't either. Smaug is a creature of "panache" so great it must be spelled "PANACHE!"

But I digress.....

The Trolls in LOTR are basically animals, but the Trolls in The Hobbit *can talk*. Obviously there are different kinds of trolls, and moreover, Tolkien's ideas of what they are changed over time. Surely, the Olog-hai were capable of speach, but the Trolls as a whole were always Brutes, more animalistic. How will the Troll scene be handled, when the Trolls *never* talk in Jackson's films?

And what of the Wargs? The Wargs are basically a demonic breed of super-wolf. They're real animals, not demons, and they're apparently a *subsecies* of wolf which later went extinct...similar to how Oliphaunts are a bigger version of Elephants, but they died out by modern times. Anyway, Wargs are presented as actually being much smarter than normal canines, apparently semi-sentient, to the point of possessing a basic language. Interaction with the Wargs was basic in Jackson's trilogy, but the Wargs are the centerpiece of a major action sequence in The Hobbit:

Gandalf kills the Great Goblin, and Throin & Co. escape. As it turned out, the Goblins and Wargs had been planning to launch a major raiding campaign against the Men living in the vales of Anduin that night
(the Wargs and Goblins are in a "loose alliance"...its not so much that the Wargs are horses to the Orcs, so much as that the Wargs are their allies and "permit" Orcs to ride them to form a sort of mounted unit)...the Wargs have gathered in a great council at a meeting place they have in a clearing. But the Orcs are late....we the reader know this is because they're busy dealing with Thorin & Co. killing the Great Goblin and then escaping.--->the CONVERSATION at the Warg Council is growing impatient, wondering why the Orcs are so late...a great white Warg Chieftain is argueing and trying to figure out what's the reason for the delay....meanwhile, Throin & Co. are running as fast as they can to escape the Orcs, think they've lost them, burst through some bushes into a clearing....and stare right in the face of several hundred Wargs, in the middle of their council...."out of the frying pan, into the fire" as they say....

So how would this scene play out? I think it would be a bit "overly fantastical" for the Wargs to actually use Common Speach....its implied they physically dont' have the mouthparts to make the sounds. But what I personally envision is that this scene would be like....Wargs barking back and forth at each other (in a primitive "Warg-langauge" which David Salo will devise)....and they *run subtitles* on the bottom of the screen, just as they did with Elvish languages!

And last but certainly not least, Del Toro's clear favorites, the Giant Spiders of Mirkwood: this will be a major centerpiece of the film....but the Spiders in the books, again, actually TALK. Using Common Speach. Bilbo wanders into their nest (invisible) and overhears them bickering about eating the Dwarves.


So what will Del Toro do? Will the talking animal creatures prevalent in the books...still talk? Or, as in Jackson's Fellowship of the Ring scene involving the escape from Orthanc....will this simply be dropped? Gandalf will simply have one-way conversations with the Eagles?

What will happen?


"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"

Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"

(This post was edited by _V_ on May 2 2008, 4:53pm)

Subject User Time
How will GDT face the issue of talking beasts? _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 2 2008, 4:51pm
    I hope they don't make them speak English Compa_Mighty Send a private message to Compa_Mighty May 2 2008, 5:31pm
        Smaug Sunnydale_Strider Send a private message to Sunnydale_Strider May 2 2008, 6:09pm
            I have to differ there... Compa_Mighty Send a private message to Compa_Mighty May 2 2008, 6:16pm
                I agree. Aunt Dora Baggins Send a private message to Aunt Dora Baggins May 3 2008, 3:57pm
                    That's IT! He's an older eviler Chrysophylax! _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 4 2008, 12:44am
        You Said It! DiveTwin Send a private message to DiveTwin May 2 2008, 8:42pm
            Differing Wants. hello_goodbye Send a private message to hello_goodbye May 3 2008, 5:14pm
        If talking animals are OK with old J.R.R., they're OK with me... keithf777 Send a private message to keithf777 May 5 2008, 11:35pm
            They can no more remove the talking animals than they can "talking trees"!!! _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 10 2008, 2:27pm
    Funny... Nazguy Send a private message to Nazguy May 2 2008, 8:32pm
    Creepy stuff in Pan's Labyrinth merklynn Send a private message to merklynn May 2 2008, 9:00pm
        Talking beasts Empedocles Send a private message to Empedocles May 2 2008, 9:58pm
            True but... DiveTwin Send a private message to DiveTwin May 2 2008, 10:42pm
                Smaug FutureDirector Send a private message to FutureDirector May 2 2008, 10:59pm
                    Telepathy... palantiriel Send a private message to palantiriel May 4 2008, 8:16pm
                        You mean just have Smaug's voice in Bilbo's head? _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 4 2008, 8:27pm
                            Yeah... palantiriel Send a private message to palantiriel May 4 2008, 8:39pm
                    I'm getting tired of 'thats too much like Narnia' and the like! keithf777 Send a private message to keithf777 May 6 2008, 5:13am
                        Talking Beasts = Childish? Folklore if full of that _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 13 2008, 6:31pm
            Smaug should definately talk...and we already know he will _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 3 2008, 3:12am
                Smaug Sunnydale_Strider Send a private message to Sunnydale_Strider May 3 2008, 11:40am
                    He's scary because he DOES talk _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 3 2008, 2:22pm
        I just heard the voice of Judy Dench :D ... as a spider :D // Elven Send a private message to Elven May 4 2008, 6:23am
            Oh yes, I think I can hear that too. // Starling Send a private message to Starling May 4 2008, 6:36am
    Talk..its only talk.... Glaurung63 Send a private message to Glaurung63 May 3 2008, 1:52am
        ... _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 3 2008, 2:18pm
            Been reading TORN when FOTR was but a rumor.... Glaurung63 Send a private message to Glaurung63 May 3 2008, 9:10pm
                I am sorry I... _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 3 2008, 10:33pm
                also I... _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 4 2008, 12:33am
                    Cool...now about dragon voices... Glaurung63 Send a private message to Glaurung63 May 4 2008, 9:24pm
                        Smaug: loud or soft? _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 4 2008, 11:17pm
                            I agree that Smaug's voice sherlock Send a private message to sherlock May 5 2008, 3:27pm
            RE: ... N.E. Brigand Send a private message to N.E. Brigand May 3 2008, 9:17pm
            ouch Magpie Send a private message to Magpie May 3 2008, 9:33pm
                Elitism merklynn Send a private message to merklynn May 4 2008, 1:16am
                    As long fmaximus Send a private message to fmaximus May 4 2008, 2:06am
                    Usually Ataahua Send a private message to Ataahua May 4 2008, 3:11am
                    I didn't mean to upset or stiffle discussion _V_ Send a private message to _V_ May 4 2008, 9:07pm
                        I'm pro-telepathy merklynn Send a private message to merklynn May 5 2008, 12:26pm

 
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.