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Numbering the Maiar of Middle-Earth by the Ages

Tolkien R.J.J
Bree


Aug 9, 10:32pm

Post #1 of 7 (765 views)
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Numbering the Maiar of Middle-Earth by the Ages Can't Post

So I have been thinking and wondering. How many Maiar lived in middle- earth for each age. The third age at the time of the WOTR appears to have the five Istari, the balrog, and Sauron for a total of 7. Am I missing any? So how does that compare to the earlier ages. I am not looking for valar or maiar that reside outside of middle earth such as in valinor. But those like melian who lived for a time in ME.

“I am a Christian, that fact can be deduced from my stories.”
-J.R.R Tolkien

“I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
J.R.R Tolkien

“Tolkien was a lifelong enemy of big government in every form, not just the harsher forms we find in soviet communism, German Nazism, or Italian fascism, but also as it manifested itself in British democratic socialism and the mongol state capitalism in other parts of the west.”
-Jonathan Witt and Jay W The Hobbit Party: The vision of freedom that Tolkien got and the west forgot


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 9, 11:11pm

Post #2 of 7 (752 views)
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I don't think we can ever have a precise count. [In reply to] Can't Post

First, we would need to determine whether all Ainu beneath the Valar were Maiar, or were there other Ainu below them? And I don't think we can ever know of all such entities that might have visited or dwelt in Middle-earth.

In the First Age we have: Melian; Ossë; Eönwë (during the War of Wrath); Gothmog and other Balrogs, Boldogs (huge Maiar in Orc-shapes).

For the Second Age: Any known other than surviving Balrogs?

Might Maiar be connected to Werewolves and Vampires (Thuringwethil).

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 9, 11:12pm)


squire
Half-elven


Aug 10, 12:11am

Post #3 of 7 (745 views)
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As noted, we just don't have the info. Tolkien didn't think that way. [In reply to] Can't Post

He didn't populate his stories with Maiar. He populated his stories with characters, and later decided that some of the apparently superhuman ones were spirits of the heavenly race under the rule of the Powers. He called them Maiar, as is explained in the 'Valaquenta' in The Silmarillion. That was only written after he'd completed The Lord of the Rings.

But he never even begins to address the other hints that, when and after Middle-earth came to be in the beginning, spirits would descend to and inhabit the world, not always in human form.

So, other candidates for Maiar in Middle-earth in the Third Age, simply as speculation, not because Tolkien ever calls them this:
  • The Watcher in the Water
  • Tom Bombadil
  • Goldberry
  • The Barrow Wights
  • Beorn
  • Smaug
  • The Watchers of Cirith Ungol
  • The Eagles
  • The Wolves of Hollin
  • The Storm Giants
  • Old Man Willow
  • Amon Hen and Amon Lhaw
  • Caradhras
  • And then there's the coy phrase: "...the world being after all full of strange creatures beyond count,..." in the LotR Prologue, to suggest hundreds or thousands of other beings, almost all of whom we never meet and some of whom might also be Maiar, populate this wonderful world.




  • squire online:
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    Tolkien R.J.J
    Bree


    Aug 10, 12:41am

    Post #4 of 7 (742 views)
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    Confirmed only [In reply to] Can't Post

    Very true and good point. I was looking more for confirmed maiar during these time periods.

    “I am a Christian, that fact can be deduced from my stories.”
    -J.R.R Tolkien

    “I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
    J.R.R Tolkien

    “Tolkien was a lifelong enemy of big government in every form, not just the harsher forms we find in soviet communism, German Nazism, or Italian fascism, but also as it manifested itself in British democratic socialism and the mongol state capitalism in other parts of the west.”
    -Jonathan Witt and Jay W The Hobbit Party: The vision of freedom that Tolkien got and the west forgot


    Tolkien R.J.J
    Bree


    Aug 10, 12:44am

    Post #5 of 7 (741 views)
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    Liberal use of maiar [In reply to] Can't Post

    I think that is a very liberal viewpoint taken. I was more looking for confirmed. But how could i have forgotten Tom bombadil?if of course he was one as there is no bigger mystery than who Tom is just as Tolkien wanted, damn him.

    “I am a Christian, that fact can be deduced from my stories.”
    -J.R.R Tolkien

    “I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
    J.R.R Tolkien

    “Tolkien was a lifelong enemy of big government in every form, not just the harsher forms we find in soviet communism, German Nazism, or Italian fascism, but also as it manifested itself in British democratic socialism and the mongol state capitalism in other parts of the west.”
    -Jonathan Witt and Jay W The Hobbit Party: The vision of freedom that Tolkien got and the west forgot


    uncle Iorlas
    Rivendell


    Aug 10, 4:49pm

    Post #6 of 7 (716 views)
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    I agree with everyone [In reply to] Can't Post

    and as noted in another thread, I fear this is exactly the sort of question that might have tempted the author to lay it all out too neatly. Better to let the question hang. The only specific I might add is that my impression from the balrog of Moria is that it was reasonable to imagine that some unspecified number of other balrogs may have gone to ground at the end of the First Age and could still be lying in their torpor, until someone digs too deep.

    But you wanted confirmed, known maiar, and I think your list is correct. Extra credit: how many of your listed maiar were personally irritated by P. Took during his lifetime?


    Tolkien R.J.J
    Bree


    Aug 10, 11:36pm

    Post #7 of 7 (681 views)
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    wild guess [In reply to] Can't Post

    The fool of a took? wild guess, maybe 3 and Tom? thinking who he came in contact with. Sauroman Gandalf and the balrog.

    “I am a Christian, that fact can be deduced from my stories.”
    -J.R.R Tolkien

    “I am in fact a Hobbit (in all but size). I like gardens, trees and unmechanized farmlands; I smoke a pipe, and like good plain food (unrefrigerated), but detest French cooking; I like, and even dare to wear in these dull days, ornamental waistcoats. I am fond of mushrooms (out of a field); have a very simple sense of humour (which even my appreciative critics find tiresome); I go to bed late and get up late.”
    J.R.R Tolkien

    “Tolkien was a lifelong enemy of big government in every form, not just the harsher forms we find in soviet communism, German Nazism, or Italian fascism, but also as it manifested itself in British democratic socialism and the mongol state capitalism in other parts of the west.”
    -Jonathan Witt and Jay W The Hobbit Party: The vision of freedom that Tolkien got and the west forgot

     
     

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