Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
Article from filmschoolrejects: the series should center around...Sam Gamgee?

dernwyn
Forum Admin


Aug 3, 12:58am

Post #1 of 23 (2257 views)
Shortcut
Article from filmschoolrejects: the series should center around...Sam Gamgee? Can't Post

Or more to the point, Hobbits. Here: https://filmschoolrejects.com/...int-of-middle-earth/ (TORn mention!)

I can understand their point, but how could the writers go about putting a "Hobbit heart" into each episode, or should they?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


squire
Half-elven


Aug 3, 1:17am

Post #2 of 23 (2225 views)
Shortcut
They have the right idea, except for one teeny tiny problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Hobbits don't have adventures. Those that do are shunned or forgotten by their community. The odd Took may have sailed off to Faerie, but for most young hobbits, climbing trees represents the height of daring and excitement.

Five TV seasons of other hobbits besides Bilbo and Frodo (and sure, Sam, Merry & Pippin) all having adventures is just as untrue to Tolkien's fundamental conception of his later epics, as the correctly criticized idea of five seasons of younger Aragorn. The only real source of five seasons of high fantasy Tolkien-themed stories, that would give an audience everything it wanted by way of adventures, wars, and magics, would be the Epic That Cannot Be Named.

But this way lies madness, in Amazon's eyes, at least. The Nameless Epic is Forbidden by the Estate. And by the above logic, one can't make a five-series TV serial about the world of The Lord of the Rings at all!

And the ghost of the Prof smiles grimly from beyond.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 3, 2:11am

Post #3 of 23 (2203 views)
Shortcut
"The Secret Took Files" [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like to see the adventures of "the fabulous Belladonna Took, one of the three remarkable daughters of the Old Took..."

Indeed, re the Took family: "...once in a while members of the Took-clan would go and have adventures. They discreetly disappeared, and the family hushed it up; but the fact remained that the Tooks were not as respectable as the Bagginses, though they were undoubtedly richer."

Extreme wealth, even if it can't finance a cover-up, can at least convert the disreputable into the merely eccentric.

Of course: "Not that Belladonna Took ever had any adventures after she became Mrs. Bungo Baggins."

******************************************
"The Crack of Doom is a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy Barad-dr."
-The Briefing of Elrond





Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 3, 2:39am

Post #4 of 23 (2195 views)
Shortcut
A Hobbit-centric series would be too low-key. [In reply to] Can't Post

Amazon is not about to produce a 5-season dramedy set in the Shire or even a police procedural centered around the Shirrifs/bounders and their occasional interactions with Rangers or Tom Bombadil. On the other hand, a series focused on Aragorn would have to draw much of its drama from the stories of the folk he encounters on his travels. Just some possibilities:
- Some young Hobbits have not returned from a fishing trip to Lake Evendim.
- A mysterious haunting in Esgaroth is linked to a star-crossed romance between a Mirkwood Elf and one of the Lake-folk.
- An Easterling must choose between conscience and the lure of the Shadow.
- Aragorn becomes involved in plots and intrigues among the merchant-princes of Dorwinion.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Aug 3, 10:36am

Post #5 of 23 (2147 views)
Shortcut
Worth noting [In reply to] Can't Post

Amazon was really keen on involving hobbits. Thing is, it isn't easy to do. Before Bilbo, no one knows about them and their little legends and adventures are their own (and uncommon at that). After the trilogy is fair game; in fact I fondly envisioned a standalone movie about Diamond of Long Cleeve, playing her as a most unquenchable folk hero, in the tall-tale style of Sally Ann Thunder Ann Whirlwind. (Well, not that tall.) Or I mused about a sort of comedy of manners with Lobelia as central (dare I day it) antihero. But those aren't high drama of course; such would have to wait until the new franchise is well established.

One attraction of an Aragorn story is that he does know hobbits. They can make appearances without actually getting on the toad and adventuring. And eastward there may be little pocket populations who aren't so comfortable, or staid, as the Shirefolk.

The second age is much harder. You can just about make a case for some Stoors not far from Eregion in Celebrimbor's day, but they could only be incidental characters; if they leave any marks on history, they give the lie to the trilogy.


squire
Half-elven


Aug 3, 12:07pm

Post #6 of 23 (2126 views)
Shortcut
But none of those charming vignettes feel at all like Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

They all seem lifted from genres like westerns, detective stories, and cheesy historical romances.

That was the most penetrating criticism of the Aragorn-as-lone-ranger storyline in the piece Dernwyn posted: that such plots and stories are a dime-a-dozen in fantasy fiction and other genres. Tolkien, if he's distinctive at all, is distinctive because he had a nose for the "mere thriller".

Admittedly, he had weaknesses in this regard. Some of his stuff *is* a bit generic, on first reading, such that only his high style pulls him through. But five seasons of nothing but watery worst-aspects-of Tolkien is a dim prospect.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 3, 12:41pm

Post #7 of 23 (2121 views)
Shortcut
The Limitations of Hobbits [In reply to] Can't Post

After Aragorn leaves Rivendell he presumably spends only a few years in and around Eriador before journeying to either Rhovanion or Rohan. The more extensively that he travels, the less likely he is to encounter Hobbits. Few of the Small Folk are going to be traveling much beyond the Shire or Bree. Bilbo Baggins might take it upon himself to visit Rivendell, or maybe Mithlond, and he might have one or two companions accompanying him, maybe younger cousins on his Took side. He might even chaperone my proposed expedition to Lake Nenuial or involve himself in the search for the lost youngsters. However, involving Hobbits in such a show would become increasingly difficult after the first season or so.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 3, 1:04pm

Post #8 of 23 (2117 views)
Shortcut
The Devil is in the Details [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But none of those charming vignettes feel at all like Tolkien


Well those are only rough plot ideas; much would depend on how they were developed and written. Missing Hobbits might be trapped by a Barrow-wight haunting an old Arnorian tomb. The entity seen near Esgaroth or perhaps in the vicinity of a Woodman settlement might be the spirit of a mortal (or even a lesser Wraith) who fell in love with an Elf of the Woodland Realm a century ago only to seek out the Necromancer in an effort to gain immortality. The conflicted Easterling may have discovered that most of what he was taught about the people of Rhovanion were lies and now he must decide whether or not to carry out a mission that would bring harm to many innocents.

But why should a series be afraid to tell stories from a variety of genres? Why couldn't Aragorn be involved in a whodunnit in Dorwinion? A number of the sword-and-sorcery stories of Conan the Barbarian could have easily been westerns, substituting Apaches for Picts. And a tragic romance is often good for drama.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 3, 1:05pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 3, 3:03pm

Post #9 of 23 (2099 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Some of his stuff *is* a bit generic, on first reading...


Only because he invented the genre. Wink

Like how Akira Kurosawa's film Seven Samurai (1954) is full of cliches because that's where all the cliches came from!

******************************************
"The Crack of Doom is a small thermal exhaust port, right below the main port. The shaft leads directly to the reactor system. A precise hit will start a chain reaction which should destroy Barad-dr."
-The Briefing of Elrond





2ndBreffest
The Shire


Aug 3, 10:53pm

Post #10 of 23 (2007 views)
Shortcut
that could be alright [In reply to] Can't Post

but I think they should center the series around lesser known characters like Tauriel. She's a very dynamic character and not much is really known about her and I know the fans would like to see more of her and she is very action based character and people really enjoy exciting action scenes.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 4, 12:25am

Post #11 of 23 (1977 views)
Shortcut
No thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
but I think they should center the series around lesser known characters like Tauriel. She's a very dynamic character and not much is really known about her and I know the fans would like to see more of her and she is very action based character and people really enjoy exciting action scenes.


The very least we should demand is that the lead character actually be one that was created by Tolkien. And if Amazon cannot draw directly from The Hobbit then I think we can rule out their using the continuity from Peter Jackson's Hobbit film trilogy (praise the Valar!).

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


2ndBreffest
The Shire


Aug 4, 12:40pm

Post #12 of 23 (1907 views)
Shortcut
look at it like this [In reply to] Can't Post

This series as I understand it is not going to be based directly on any of the Tolkien books, but rather on what information can be pulled from the appendices and book notes and things. So the most Tolkien book fans can hope for is basically "fan fiction" that sort of feels like Tolkien,however, in most likelihood that is not what they are going to get, rather what is more likely is "fan fiction" with Tolkien characters and GoT-esque scenarios and dialogue. Tolkien was from a far different time than our own, and his style of writing is not something you would see published today. Peter Jackson knew this and tweaked his movies appropriately to appeal to modern day audiences. Amazon like WB is in this for the money and will most likely do the same.

Tolkien purists will never be happy seeing their beloved characters doing and saying things they would never do if Tolkien had written it, so I think the safest bet for Amazon would be to work with Peter Jackson and focus more on appealing to the movie fans. The purists are already familiar with Peter Jackson's method of interpreting Tolkien and will hopefully be like, "well its a little better than the Hobbit", and Peter Jackson fans will get more of the sorts of things they like, like lots of action, violence and cool special effects and his style of humor.

The reason I think the series should focus on Tauriel is that audiences today want to see movies with strong female leading characters like the new Star Wars movies. Tauriel is not a Tolkien character so the writers are free to do what they want and not have to worry about Tolkien purists saying "Tauriel would never do such and such". Season 2 could focus on Alfrid.


squire
Half-elven


Aug 4, 1:17pm

Post #13 of 23 (1891 views)
Shortcut
You make some excellent points about the likely audience for a so-called "Tolkien" TV series these days. [In reply to] Can't Post

I would tend to agree with your entire analysis.

If you are right, and I'll bet you are in terms of the big picture, whether or not Tauriel or her girlfriends become the central heroes, there's probably naught that an old Ent, er, Tolkien book fan can do to hold back that storm.

Although I have been enjoying the speculative conversations in this forum, I admit I increasingly look forward to not actually watching this show.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 4, 1:42pm

Post #14 of 23 (1884 views)
Shortcut
The LotR Appendices [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This series as I understand it is not going to be based directly on any of the Tolkien books, but rather on what information can be pulled from the appendices and book notes and things.


I do not believe this statement to be accurate. My impression is that the show will be based on the appendices to The Lord of the Rings, even if some liberties are taken with them. I will go further and hope that the writers will be (at least broadly) riffing of of Tolkien's 'historical' timeline for the Third Age:
- Year 1974: The Kingdom of Arthedain falls.
- Year 1975: Angmar falls.
- Year 2050: King Ernur of Gondor rides out to meet the challenge of the Witch-king and is presumed slain.
- Year 2770: The dragon Smaug destroys Dale and drives Durin's Folk from Erebor.
- Year 2790: King Thrr is murdered by Azog in Moria.
- Year 2793-99: The War of the Dwarves and Orcs.
- Year 2890: Birth of Bilbo Baggins.
- Year 2931: Birth of Aragorn II.
- Year 2933: Arathorn II slain; Aragorn is fostered under the name Estel by Elrond in Rivendell.
- Year 2941: The Quest of Erebor. The White Council drives the Necromancer out of Mirkwood. The Battle of Five Armies.
- Year 2951: Aragorn is told his birth-name and heritage; he meets Arwen, daughter of Elrond. Aragorn goes into the Wild.
- Year 2956: Aragorn meets and becomes friends with Gandalf the Grey.
- Year 2957-80: Aragorn undertakes great journeys and errantries.
- Year 2968: Birth of Frodo Baggins.
- Year 2980: Aragorn leads a raid against the Corsair fleet at Umbar. He leaves the service of Gondor and is reunited with Arwen in Lrien. Drogo and Primula Baggins drown in a boating accident.
- Year 3001: BIlbo's eleventy-first birthday and farewell party.
- Year 3018-19: The War of the Ring.

You get the idea (I only meant to include about half of that). The showrunner(s) will never please everyone, especially book purists. They will just have to accept that. I wouldn't mind Tauriel, or a character like her, as a supporting character; I do not think she should be the lead.

Any season with a focus on Alfrid is a terrible idea--not the least because he is DEAD by the end of the Battle of Five Armies. Better to let the Master of Lake-town survive and make of with much of the gold provided by Bard for the rebuilding of Esgaroth (as in the book).

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 4, 1:43pm)


2ndBreffest
The Shire


Aug 4, 2:14pm

Post #15 of 23 (1874 views)
Shortcut
Tolkien purists [In reply to] Can't Post

I would say there is a zero percent chance that Amazon will be giving much consideration to Tolkien purists, and truthfully I don't even know how such a thing could even be achieved at this point. The very concept of the series almost guarantees a fan fictiony feel to it. Even if they went the young Aragorn route, you're going to have a team of modern writers looking at what little information Tolkien wrote on this subject and trying to fill in the blanks in an attempt to turn it into a successful tv series. Maybe if they hired a team of writers composed of Tolkien experts with academic level knowledge of Tolkien's writing and no interest in modern day societal trends, then maybe they could produce something that would appeal to purists, but the majority of the viewing public will be expecting something that resembles the movies they are familiar with.

So if you are a purist, my advise would be to not get your hopes up.


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Aug 4, 7:18pm

Post #16 of 23 (1816 views)
Shortcut
Goodnesa [In reply to] Can't Post

A lot going on here, more than I have time for this moment, but one point: Amazon cares about the book. The people running the show over there know the book, there was a kid in the room whose job I'm pretty sure was to know it, and anyway they're wotking with the estate. Canon may not be king, they are less purist than I, and there are some here more purist than I (I think I should be correct in naming Squire and Otaku), but canon matters.

Anyway, wow. The movie fandom is very shortly to be outmoded and replaced by fans of whatever Amazon's about to do. PJ films are about to start looking dated and goofy. Don't put the cart before the horse! The reason there's a fandom here is that a certain book has been beloved of generations, and inspired generations of imitators. PJ was guaranteed a turnout; everybody knows Tolkien is regarded as the best, just because the blurb on the back of every fantasy book compares that book to Tolkien. That power is now Amazon's.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 4, 7:30pm

Post #17 of 23 (1813 views)
Shortcut
Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure that squire is a book-purist in the fullest sense, but he can answer that better himself. No, I don't see Amazon hiring a panel of Tolkien scholars either--though maybe having at least one on hand as a 'consultant'. The Tolkien Estate may have even had that written into the legal stuff as a condition, but I wouldn't know such things. Maybe uncle Iorlas can answer that! The show could manage to evoke the films, though, and still show more fidelity to Tolkien's legendarium than did Peter Jackson (a world where we don't have to move Aragorn's birth forward by roughly 17 years, and where there are no tombs in the newly invented High Fells of Rhudaur).

EDIT: I see that unc' Iorlas posted just before I did and actually partially answered the question I brought up without having to see it! Cool

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 4, 7:33pm)


Furcorn
Registered User

Aug 4, 9:06pm

Post #18 of 23 (1782 views)
Shortcut
Don't do a central character [In reply to] Can't Post

Far too risky to do a single central character. GoT is so appealing in large part due to the multiple story lines with their own personae.This is the only way to do it at this price point and with such a deep source to draw on.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 4, 9:17pm

Post #19 of 23 (1778 views)
Shortcut
Different characters and arcs each season? [In reply to] Can't Post

Some (including myself) have speculated that Aragorn might only be the central character for the first season. After that the series might explore a different place and time, though possibly still in the Third Age. Maybe Season Two would be Balin's attempt to recolonize Moria?

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Aug 4, 9:42pm

Post #20 of 23 (1768 views)
Shortcut
possible I suppose [In reply to] Can't Post

I think, though, that a show with through characters, long-term emotional investments for the viewers, will likely hold an aufience better. Which is unfortunate because there's tons of good material in the margins for stories of shorter arcs. I would have thought that would be a great use of the rights they bought, a couple central stories and many spinoffs, but nobody else seemed to be thinking that way.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 4, 10:00pm

Post #21 of 23 (1761 views)
Shortcut
One Possibility [In reply to] Can't Post

My thought was that a change of direction might depend upon how the first season is received. An overwhelmingly positive response would likely lead to the continuation of the adventures of Aragorn.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Plurmo
Rohan

Aug 7, 8:28pm

Post #22 of 23 (1613 views)
Shortcut
The Remittance Hobbit, [In reply to] Can't Post

a ne'er-do-well from the Oldbuck clan was the source of much of Gandalf's extensive knowledge about hobbit burglary technique and how it could be used for penetrating the best guarded places. In his later years he became filthy rich working as a hobbit countermeasures consultant for the Evil One, to whom he delivered long lectures on "how to smell a hobbit." He was surreptitiously thrown into Orodruin after the fall of Sauron and his and Smeagol's burned skelletons were shown as proof that the tale of the two hobbit spies advanced by the Tarks was in fact a failed attempt on Sauron's life who, unfortunately passed away nonetheless in a great bout of dysentery (after consuming lembas found hidden inside Frodo's corslet) which dissolved Barad Dur along with his great empire and eventually gave origin to the legend of the fiery eye.

There are little hobbit footprints everywhere in Middle-earth.


Wainrider
Bree

Oct 20, 5:36pm

Post #23 of 23 (755 views)
Shortcut
show [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't have much hope that it will be true to Tolkien. I still don't understand why they are focusing on the wars against the Witch King of Angmar which would give opportunities to have magic, battles, spying, creatures, etc while staying somewhat true to the history of Middle Earth.

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.