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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
There and Back Again

dlnewhouse
The Shire


Jul 29, 1:12am

Post #1 of 17 (2984 views)
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There and Back Again Can't Post

Perhaps Bilbo went along because he realized it might be the last adventure of middle earth. That is what the song the dwarves sing suggests.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uxfoa23skHg" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

and he wanted to be there when her people died.

Daniel L Newhouse

(This post was edited by dlnewhouse on Jul 29, 1:17am)


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Jul 29, 3:14am

Post #2 of 17 (2918 views)
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Misty Mountains Cold [In reply to] Can't Post

Oops, in the movie they sang something different

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Pyy_FIYE7EE" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Daniel L Newhouse


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Aug 1, 5:34am

Post #3 of 17 (2595 views)
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Nulukkhizd&#299;n [In reply to] Can't Post

The Song of Durin implies that Nargothrond is the entrance to Vulcan, even more so than Thangarodrim. Called Nulukkhizd&#299;n by the Dwarves.

Important image the sacking of Nargothrond:

[url=http://tednasmith.poverellomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/TN-Finduilas_is_Led_Past_Turin_at_Nargothrond.jpg]

The inference I draw is that the elves knew that the golden haired elves were going to die out, and were helping the dwarves delve for the place where they were initially created, so that they could rest there for all time.

This also implies that Durin's people are the only ones that ever had hope. They went to Moria to delve for something the elves were looking for, and I think it was more than Mithril. They shut the door when Sauron put on the ring, because they couldn't help. Eventually they were driven out, but Durin's crown is still visible in the Mirromere.

Daniel L Newhouse

(This post was edited by dlnewhouse on Aug 1, 5:44am)


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Aug 1, 5:52am

Post #4 of 17 (2585 views)
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Moria [In reply to] Can't Post

Then, when Gandalf returns without a ring for Thorin, the dwarves fate is sealed. Going back to Moria without a ring of power was a fat chance idea.

Remember, during the Battle of Five Armies, Bilbo stood with the elf-king. In the book. To be fair, the 13 dwarves were stuck in the Lonely Mountain and had to use an explosion to join the fight.

In the movie he helped Thorin die fighting Azog, which is a much better ending.

Daniel L Newhouse

(This post was edited by dlnewhouse on Aug 1, 6:07am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 1, 2:23pm

Post #5 of 17 (2548 views)
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The Song of Durin [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Perhaps Bilbo went along because he realized it might be the last adventure of middle earth. That is what the song the dwarves sing suggests.



and he wanted to be there when her people died.


The song sings not of the end of days for the Dwarves (or of Middle-earth itself). The darkness that dwells in Durin's halls is the Balrog, Durin's Bane. And how would the song that Gimli sings in Khazad-dm have had any effect on Bilbo seventy-seven years earlier? And, no, the poem implies no connection between the fall of either Nargothrond or Gondolin and the Roman god Vulcan. The Misty Mounttains song from the Unexpected Party is all about Erebor, the coming of Smaug, and the hope of Durin's Folk to return one day. It has nothing to do with end of the race of Dwarves and certainly not the end of Middle-earth.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 1, 2:37pm)


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Aug 13, 2:55am

Post #6 of 17 (2351 views)
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dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

Revising my thoughts - perhaps the dwarves had already started delving Nargothrond before the elves came there, and they built Gondolin. They did it for the blond elf women.

The one thread I do see is the fading away of golden haired elves - that to me is a sign that heaven is dying. So I still think the dwarves wish to go back to Nargothrond to die. Whatever they hoped to find in Moria, never happened.

The thing is, Gimli who sings it, goes to Valinor in the appendix to live amongst the elves, positively signifying that heaven comes down.

Daniel L Newhouse

(This post was edited by dlnewhouse on Aug 13, 3:00am)


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 13, 4:04am

Post #7 of 17 (2345 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

Aside from the song:

"That would be no good," said the wizard, "not without a mighty Warrior, even a Hero. I tried to find one; but warriors are busy fighting one another in distant lands, and in this neighbourhood heroes are scarce, or simply not to be found. Swords in these parts are mostly blunt, and axes are used for trees, and shields as cradles or dish-covers; and dragons are comfortably far-off (and therefore legendary)."
-An Unexpected Party

******************************************
"Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!"
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"

-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Aug 14, 6:21pm

Post #8 of 17 (2215 views)
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sacking of Nargothrond [In reply to] Can't Post

K, now the sacking of Nargothrond

Daniel L Newhouse

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Aug 14, 8:49pm)


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Aug 14, 6:26pm

Post #9 of 17 (2212 views)
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Misty Mountains [In reply to] Can't Post



Daniel L Newhouse

(This post was edited by Silverlode on Aug 14, 8:39pm)


Kilidoescartwheels
Tol Eressea


Aug 14, 8:59pm

Post #10 of 17 (2184 views)
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I'm so confused????? [In reply to] Can't Post

Trying to decide if this post is serious or satirical. The Song of the Lonely Mountain has nothing to do with Moria, it's about Erebor. As for why Bilbo went, well the book & movie have two different takes on this. In the book, Bilbo's Tookish side was somehow riled up and decided to go on this adventure to "prove" himself. The movie doesn't come out and say why, only that for some reason Bilbo changed his mind and decided to go on an adventure. The impression I got was that, when he looked around his empty house he realized he was missing something and ran after it. Whether that something was adventure or companionship (or possibly a crush on Thorin, if you've read any of the Bagginshield fanfics out there) is probably open to interpretation. But that's only my take, others may disagree.

I'm not scared to be seen, I make no apologies - this is me!

from The Greatest Showman




dlnewhouse
The Shire


Aug 14, 10:55pm

Post #11 of 17 (2179 views)
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Durin's Hall and Misty Mountains [In reply to] Can't Post

I got inspired by Durin's Hall to pontificate, but then I realized that Misty Mountains is the song sung in the movie. I haven't found a soundtrack with Durin's Hall. Hobbit, or Lord of the Rings.

Daniel L Newhouse


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 15, 1:22am

Post #12 of 17 (2153 views)
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"Far Over the Misty Mountains Cold" [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...but then I realized that Misty Mountains is the song sung in the movie.


The "Misty Mountains" song is the one sung in the book at Bag End as well (along with "Chip the Glasses and Crack the Plates!").

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 15, 1:23am)


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Aug 25, 3:20pm

Post #13 of 17 (1749 views)
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attempting to post end of Nargothrond [In reply to] Can't Post

http://tednasmith.poverellomedia.com/...n_at_Nargothrond.jpg

I have a previous sentence that is a total typo:

The inference I draw is that the dwarves knew that the golden haired elves were going to die out, and were helping the elves delve for the place where the dwarves were initially created, so that the dwarves could rest there for all time.

Daniel L Newhouse

(This post was edited by dlnewhouse on Aug 25, 3:34pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 25, 5:09pm

Post #14 of 17 (1737 views)
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Assumptions [In reply to] Can't Post

I take it that last sentence was supposed to end: "...so that the elves could rest there for all time."

Well, the spirits (far) of the Eldar generally went to the Halls of Mandos in Valinor if their bodies died, so physical death wasn't quite as big a deal for them as it was (and is) for mortals. For them it was only a temporary separation.

The Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost believed that the Fathers of the Broadbeams and Firebeards awoke at the site of Mount Dolmed. And outside of the Vanyar, who remained in Valinor, there weren't that many golden-haired Eldar; at least not as a characteristic of another Elven people. I don't think there's much support for your conclusions.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Sep 1, 3:25am

Post #15 of 17 (1417 views)
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rest in peace [In reply to] Can't Post

The question, I suppose, is whether the dwarves deserve to have Nargothrond restored. No! Because they lost Moria! So I guess you could say it is the hope that they go back to Nargothrond with Durin and their old friend Fingon and rest in peace.

Daniel L Newhouse


dlnewhouse
The Shire


Sep 1, 6:36am

Post #16 of 17 (1402 views)
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Are you on the square? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VqoyKzgkqR4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Shut down the Youtube links? This site is not user friendly.

Daniel L Newhouse

(This post was edited by dlnewhouse on Sep 1, 6:40am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 1, 12:14pm

Post #17 of 17 (1378 views)
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You've lost me. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The question, I suppose, is whether the dwarves deserve to have Nargothrond restored. No! Because they lost Moria! So I guess you could say it is the hope that they go back to Nargothrond with Durin and their old friend Fingon and rest in peace.


The Caves of Narog were originally inhabited by the Petty-dwarves who were not associated with any, single one of the Seven Houses of the Dwarves. The Elves drove them out and later Finrod Felagund had Narothrond constructed on that site with the aid of Dwarves of Ered Luin. Durin's Folk had nothing to do with it so I don't understand how their loss of Khazad-dm has any relevance to the subject. Also, with the exception of Harlindon and Forlindon all of Beleriand was sunk beneath the Sea at the end of the First Age; Nargothrond would have been lost to both Dwarves and Elves.

In any case, the Longbeards (Durin's Folk) were driven out of Moria by the Balrog they named Durin's Bane which they disturbed by accident having no way of knowing it was there. How do they (much less any other Dwarves) deserve any punishment for that?

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

 
 

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