Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
*** The Hobbit read-through Chapter 8 Flies and Spiders
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

CuriousG
Half-elven


Jul 14, 8:20pm

Post #26 of 50 (1624 views)
Shortcut
Yeah, I can see overlooking an Ori or a Nori [In reply to] Can't Post

but not forgetting all about the prince and leader who suitably demands attention and deference at all times.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jul 14, 8:23pm

Post #27 of 50 (1625 views)
Shortcut
There's Elves and then there's elves [In reply to] Can't Post

You pretty much spoke my mind: these disappearing fairy folk in the woods bear little resemblance to ranks of soldiers charging goblins on a battle field at the BOFA. Where's their magic when it could actually save lives and not just keep the party going?

Applying logic and looking for consistency in an author? Guilty as charged. Smile The fantasy world could use more of it, not less.


Petty Dwarf
Bree


Jul 14, 10:26pm

Post #28 of 50 (1599 views)
Shortcut
Differing situations. [In reply to] Can't Post

Mirkwood is dark, old, alive, and steeped in Elven magic. It's easy for them to pull that vanishing trick if they feel like it. There may not even be much magic involved. Doesn't the narrator mention someone kicking out the fire?

In contrast, the Bo5A takes place on a vast, open plain. Much harder to pull that kind of stage magic. Would you prefer it if they all turned into grasshoppers to fight, as the pixies do in that one legend?

"No words were laid on stream or stone
When Durin woke and walked alone."


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jul 14, 11:56pm

Post #29 of 50 (1565 views)
Shortcut
Heavens, no! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote
Would you prefer it if they all turned into grasshoppers to fight, as the pixies do in that one legend?




noWizardme
Valinor


Jul 15, 7:19am

Post #30 of 50 (1535 views)
Shortcut
A logician in faerie II [In reply to] Can't Post

Some more thoughts about applying modern logic to fantasy.

I suppose that a story does need some logic: people’s accounts of their dreams- or what they thought they experienced on premed or the time they took LSD - tend to be entertaining only insofar as they are weird. They lack the coherence of a story. So I think that a storyteller who is trying to entertain must apply some logic: but which logic, and how much?

I think one available logic is the waking-mind mechanistic one: if elves can disappear, under what circumstances can they do this; how far can they travel etc. ?

The other logic is an emotional one- it feels right that the half-feared forest locals would be mirage-like, or that there is something nasty waiting for you just outside the fragile extent of civilisation’s firelight. That stuff tends to go wrong when one shines the flashlight of mechanistic logic on them. The weeping angel freezes, and you learn no more.

Fantasy, I think, is a flexible enough genre to cover either approach. And there’s also a matter of which logic does any given reader apply to the story.

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


noWizardme
Valinor


Jul 15, 9:32am

Post #31 of 50 (1524 views)
Shortcut
The magic is in the place then? [In reply to] Can't Post

The magic is in the place then, as much as being a property of the elves themselves?...I like that idea.

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


noWizardme
Valinor


Jul 15, 9:44am

Post #32 of 50 (1522 views)
Shortcut
..and then there's the not very fairy Legolas [In reply to] Can't Post

If I recall, there isn't much faerie about Legolas. There isn't to be fair much characterisation of him at all at first. He behaves oddly when the fellowship is cut off in the snow, seeming not to realise the seriousness of the problem. But then not very much until later.

Once we get to Book III, he's one of the trio of the Three Hunters, but he (and Gimli) seem more like fantasy races used as kinds of character; Legolas playing Bones to Gimli's Spock and Aragorn's Kirk, perhaps. Tolkien throws in the odd reminder that Legolas is not a Man - at one point we read that Legolas doesn't need to sleep and can see supernaturally far - but it's very half-hearted and soon Legolas is fast asleep after a long hard ride with Gandalf.

It might be that you can't both travel and adventure with a character and have them remain exotic. And there's been, since the time the Fellowship didn't include Glorfindel the problem that an over-powered elf character would solve all the expedition's problems too easily. But apart from these writing problems, I'm thinking that Legolas is another example of how Tolkien crosses in and out of 'realism'. Or it might be an example of how magic is as much about where you are as who you are. And of course a final answer is that the wood elves of The Hobbit just aren't the wood elves of LOTR, don't cry now. Smile

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 15, 1:18pm

Post #33 of 50 (1528 views)
Shortcut
Fili, Kili and their order of birth [In reply to] Can't Post

There is another item brought up at the Enchanted Stream that seldom gets remarked on. When Bilbo reports seeing a boat on the opposite shore of the stream, we have this:


Quote
"Dori is the strongest, but Fili is the youngest and still has the best sight," said Thorin. "Come here Fili, and see if you can see the boat Mr. Baggins is talking about."


"The Line of the Dwarves of Erebor" at the end of Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings gives us a birth year of 2859 for Fíli and a birth year of 2964 for Kílii, making Kíli the youngest. This could have been easily corrected by Tolkien with a simple substitution of names in a handful of paragraphs in Chapter 8 or a similar revision to the genealogy given in LotR. Was he never made aware of the discrepancy? Or is there some reason why this issue was never addressed in the author's lifetime?

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 15, 1:23pm

Post #34 of 50 (1523 views)
Shortcut
Legoas the Fae [In reply to] Can't Post

Legolas is given several exotic qualities that sets him apart from the others: He has extremely keen eyesight; possesses uncanny skill with the bow; he can run over fresh snow scarcely leaving prints. More subtly, there is his perspective gained by living many centuries longer than his companions--perhaps even longer than the physical incarnation of Gandalf.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


noWizardme
Valinor


Jul 15, 3:56pm

Post #35 of 50 (1516 views)
Shortcut
But the exotic qualities don’t count for much [In reply to] Can't Post

Legolas can walk on snow, but it’s muscles not magic that allow a retreat from the mountain pass.

Legolas is an expert shot, but the (presumed) fell beast he shoots down is soon replaced. And Gimli wins the macarbre game of heads at Helm’s Deep.

And so on... I can’t think of a situation where the Fellowship win through specifically because they brought Legolas and his elvish superpowers. I think it’s a better story as a result, but it means that Legolas’ alien-ness as an elf is kept to the background (at least for me, when I read).

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


Morthoron
Gondor


Jul 15, 7:15pm

Post #36 of 50 (1510 views)
Shortcut
As someone said, "There are elves, and then there are Elves." [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Tolkien maintained the otherworldliness of Legolas, but kept it to just heightened acuity, and a knowledge that a being might possess being centuries old (his recognition of the Balrog in Moria, for instance). But he is a Silvan/Sindarin Elf that had not been to Aman, and therefore he is different yet not that different.

You get the true Netherworldly qualities from the brief appearances of Noldor, like Galadriel, Glorfindel, and Gildor Inglorion and Company. In the case of both Glorfindel and Gildor, even the Nazgul flee from them. And of course Galadriel can seem downright ominous.

Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



CuriousG
Half-elven


Jul 15, 8:56pm

Post #37 of 50 (1499 views)
Shortcut
I can brush off some appeals to logic [In reply to] Can't Post

Such as, "Why don't the Eagles fly Frodo to Mount Doom?" That is a logical question, and if they can rescue him when all hell is literally breaking loose (and arriving in mass to fight the Nazgul, if needed), they can just as easily take him there in the first place.

But 1) that thought never occurred to me on my first read, and 2) reading more about how Tolkien used the Eagles, I again accept that they weren't going to do it. And I'm glad they don't, or the book would be over in 20 pages.

But readers have a right to look for logic if a writer wants to be taken seriously, and Tolkien was logical enough (laboring over the correct phases of the moon, for pete's sake), that we do take him seriously.

A contrast would be a whimsical book like "Wind in the Willows," where answers aren't given to a lot of logical questions, and you accept that "world" on a different level (kinda like the world you're in when you're not quite sober).


FarFromHome
Valinor


Jul 16, 8:52am

Post #38 of 50 (1475 views)
Shortcut
The logic of elf magic [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe it would help to look at this from another perspective. Let's say that the elves' "magic" isn't magic at all, but just the perception mortals have of elves' powerfully different nature. Time flows differently for them, for one thing, and their singing can give mortals a kind of "information overload" that leads to a strange, dreamlike state. The Hobbit, being told more as a fairy tale, doesn't go into details, but in LotR we can see that Tolkien has this all worked out. Think of how the elves' singing affects Frodo:
“Then the enchantment became more and more dreamlike, until he felt that an endless river of swelling gold and silver was flowing over him, too multitudinous for its pattern to be comprehended; it became part of the throbbing air about him, and it drenched and drowned him. Swiftly he sank under its shining weight into a deep realm of sleep.” [Many Meetings]
That's elvish "enchantment" (more-or-less literally "overcome by song") in a nutshell. Elvish thought and expression is so much more than mortals can bear that when they are surrounded by it they fall into a dreamlike state.

In this chapter of The Hobbit, it's interesting that before the dwarves first see the elven feasts they have already heard all about them from Bombur, who has seen them very clearly in his river-induced sleep. The story is hinting, it seems to me, that there's something dreamlike about these feasts, and they may not be quite as the dwarves experience them. If you consider that the elves' singing may already have altered the dwarves' perceptions, and that elves experience time differently from mortals, those interrupted feasts may not be quite as annoying for the elves as they seem. The sudden stops and disappearances the dwarves notice may be much less sudden for the elves, who besides experiencing time differently also find it easy and quite natural to melt away in dark woodland. And it's pretty clear that elves love nothing more than teasing mortals who stray into an elvish world that is too big and overwhelming for them!

As for the "logic" of posting guards to make sure the feasts are not interrupted - that strikes me as absolutely against the natural, spontaneous spirit of elvish feasting. It may seem logical to mortals but it would obviously spoil the atmosphere - I don't think I'd enjoy a picnic much myself if armed guards were needed!

The Hobbit is written very much as a fairy tale, so we don't get enough detail of how elvish "magic" works to see the logic that lies behind it. But I think there is a kind of logic based on Tolkien's conception of the elves' nature, and it is shown much more clearly in LotR. There we see that elves can make themselves difficult to see (not invisible but just somehow making mortals' eyes fail to notice them, especially in woodland and at night, as Gildor's elves do for everyone but the elf-friend Frodo). We hear from Galadriel that "elf magic" is a puzzling concept for the elves themselves, since they are just doing what seems natural to them. We see how time flows differently for them when Sam works out how time seemed to stand still in Lothlórien although the moon phases show that more than a month must have passed. And of course we see the strange experience of song-induced dreaming in both Frodo and Sam in the Hall of Fire.

Bearing all this in mind could also account for the difference between the "elf magic" mortals experience when elves are in their own element, compared to their seeming ordinariness in other situations. One elf, like Legolas, working with mortals, doesn't seem to have much "magic" (although he does have incredible eyesight and marksmanship, and an ability to dream while awake, and so on). An elvish army too, in the light of day, has no more magic than this. That's because what they have isn't magic to themselves at all, but just a result of their heightened abilities that under certain conditions overwhelm mortals' puny abilities and end up looking like magic. The trick Tolkien is playing in The Hobbit, I guess, is to leave us without any explanation for the dwarves' experiences at the feast. We are seeing the scene through their eyes, but their eyes are not getting the whole picture as the elves see it.

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



squire
Half-elven


Jul 16, 12:14pm

Post #39 of 50 (1469 views)
Shortcut
Thank you - but what about the Silmarillion? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that Tolkien 'works out' the nature of Elvish 'magic' more completely in The Lord of the Rings, following certain tropes and fancies that he includes in The Hobbit. And I like your idea that we are seeing the Mirkwood Elves' actions through very flawed and deceived (or overwhelmed) mortal eyes, the dwarves' and the hobbit's.

But at the time he wrote this scene, he had been writing of the doings of Elves and Mortals for over a decade, within his Silmarillion cycle. Can we see any hints of this kind of interaction, between magic and deceit, or magic and alternate perceptions of the world, in those stories? Or did Tolkien hit the reset button, as it were, when he started The Hobbit as a 'fairy tale' for a different audience, and then ran with it in LotR - to the point that the LotR Elves and the Silmarillion Elves really don't seem like the same fantastical people?



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jul 16, 1:07pm

Post #40 of 50 (1461 views)
Shortcut
Elvish singing and Aragorn's singing [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, we're skipping over the "tra la la" singing and its effect on the mind. Smile

Your post reminded me of this part of Aragorn's youth where he thinks singing about Luthien has conjured her up, and that Elvish minstrels can indeed conjure images (or holograms) of their subject matter:

Quote

‘The next day at the hour of sunset Aragorn walked alone in the woods, and his heart was high within him; and he sang, for he was full of hope and the world was fair. And suddenly even as he sang he saw a maiden walking on a greensward among the white stems of the birches; and he halted amazed, thinking that he had strayed into a dream, or else that he had received the gift of the Elf-minstrels, who can make the things of which they sing appear before the eyes of those that listen.

‘For Aragorn had been singing a part of the Lay of Lúthien which tells of the meeting of Lúthien and Beren in the forest of Neldoreth. And behold! there Lúthien walked before his eyes in Rivendell, clad in a mantle of silver and blue, fair as the twilight in Elven-home; her dark hair strayed in a sudden wind, and her brows were bound with gems like stars.



FarFromHome
Valinor


Jul 16, 6:38pm

Post #41 of 50 (1459 views)
Shortcut
For me, the Silmarillion has a get-out-of-jail-free card [In reply to] Can't Post

The thing about the Sil is that it recounts the history of the Elves, as remembered and told (or sung) by Elves, but as heard and recorded by mortals (Bilbo apparently, in the final instance, although I know other candidates were considered during the long gestation of the histories of Middle-earth). So the perceptions are going to be blended in ways that are hard to untangle. And anyway, as I tend to imagine it, the Silmarillion being the work of Elves could not have been completely understood and fully "translated" by any mortal anyway. It's mythic rather than "historical", because that's where mortal imagination has to go in order to try to grasp things that are beyond its ken. So if there are no examples of mortals experiencing what the dwarves experience in Mirkwood, well that may just be because no dwarves (or mortals generally) were a source for the Silmarillion stories! There could still be examples of Elves themselves being aware of their power over mortals, but my knowledge of the Sil isn't good enough to think of any. There's Beren enchanted by Lúthien's singing, I guess. And if we go up a level, Thingol enchanted by Melian's. Anybody have any better ideas?

As to your final point, that "the LotR Elves and the Silmarillion Elves really don't seem like the same fantastical people", I put that down to the fact that the Elves look different in their own eyes to the way they look from the hobbits' perspective in LotR (or Bilbo and the dwarves' even more naive perspective in The Hobbit). Elves don't seem fantastical to themselves, after all - they take their own nature for granted, just as we do. It's only when a story is told from the perspective of lesser beings that the fantastical nature of the Elves comes through.

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



Morthoron
Gondor


Jul 18, 3:14am

Post #42 of 50 (1429 views)
Shortcut
Just look to the "Dark Elf" himself.... [In reply to] Can't Post

to capture some of the fey attributes of the Silvan Elves in The Hobbit. Eöl, upon seeing Aredhel, became desirous of her:

"...and he set his enchantments about her so that she could not find the ways out, but drew ever nearer to his dwelling in the depths of the wood."

That fairy motif, a spell of Bewilderment, is common in nearly every corner of Ireland, Wales and England. And it certainly is akin to the ElfKing's dinner party in the middle of Mirkwood.

In regards to the Noldor, in the tale "Of Beren and Luthien" Finrod Felagund casts a spell of Glamour:

"...they came upon a company of Orcs, and slew them all in their camp by night; and they took their gear and their weapons. By the arts of Felagund their own forms and faces were changed into the likeness of Orcs; and thus disguised they came far upon the northward road..."

So there are motifs and tropes that Tolkien did use in The Sil to give certain Elves their Faery qualities. They are not many but they are strategically placed.

Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



(This post was edited by Morthoron on Jul 18, 3:16am)


sador
Half-elven


Jul 18, 1:35pm

Post #43 of 50 (1397 views)
Shortcut
I've discussed this point before [In reply to] Can't Post

Here.

One point I have to add - apparently Christopher Tolkien did not discuss this discrepancy, at least not in book XII. So I misremembered that.



sador
Half-elven


Jul 18, 2:27pm

Post #44 of 50 (1397 views)
Shortcut
"How many breakfasts, and other meals, we have missed in that nasty clockless, timeless wood?" [In reply to] Can't Post

Although arguably, timelesness is a positive attribute of the mythical.

But as long as they are on the path, they are safe. Now that's a bit of a fairy-tale cliché is it not, don't leave the path. I'm trying to think of other examples. Alice in Wonderland, Hansen and Gretel?
If anything, it is the Babes in the Wood story. Hansel and Gretel follows the same trope, but Alice? I'm not sure.

The question of whether and when to leave the path arises several time in The Lord of the Rings - Frodo and Pippin's argument about leaving the path in the Shire, the Old Forest - Barrow-downs detour which Aragorn berated, and then his own short cut to Weathertop, Ugluk's troop and the Three Hunters, the Passage of the Marshes, the whole detour through Ithilien (especially Gollum's criticism of Faramir's counsel), Faramir's lament of Boromir coming back not in his own way, the Paths of the Dead, Druadan Forest, Sam and Frodo's trek to the Isenmouthe, even Saruman getting to the Shire before Frodo.
All of these have their pros and cons, and most do not provide a clear answer as to the question, whether following the path is a good or bad idea.

Also, at the beginning of A Warm Welcome we learn that the path Beorn recommended, and Gandalf repeatedly told them to follow, came to no good end. So this was a fortunate mistake - perhaps even a felix peccatum.

And what his opinions where of Lewes Carroll.
Christopher Tolkien mentioned that his father was familiar with even the more obscure of Lewis Carroll's works, and apparently liked them well enough.

Anyway, it is really pitch-dark at night. Something we don't often see in the modern-world and definitely not where I live. There is always some light around at night here!
Ah, light pollution.
I remember going with my family on a vacation, and returning late to the lodge we were staying at. Climbing up the mountains, I stopped the car by the roadside and told the kids to look up to the sky. We could see so many stars!


How long and how long where the company in the forest for? Has anyone worked this out?

This has been answered, but it must be remembered that this is a mythical forest, which one cannot leave unless by some special Grace. Like the Old Forest, but on a larger scale.

I did think that the Dwarves might not mind the dark so much as they are used to working in the dark and really don't mind it, as asking for dark at Bag End at the start of the tale. But then again, the Dwarves are not that fond of all the creatures about.

Dwarves like the dark, if they are in a familiar place. In the Great Unknown, with unnamed terrors lurking on either side of the path - well, I would be nervous myself in their stead.
Again, compare to how Gimli fared on the Paths of the Dead.


it is amusing to note that Thorin still refers to the Hobbit as Mr. Baggins.
He will again, when they come to Lake-town.
As did the Rivendell Elves. And Gandalf, in A Thief in the Night. And Bilbo himself (as Mr. Bilbo Baggins), upon encountering Gollum.

I also note this is one incident when Fili acts on his own without been referred to with his brother.
And is rewarded for it with a seat in the boat on the first crossing.
But apart of his being the youngest and with the best eyesight, he also shows some gumption, and is the one to come up with the idea of drawing the boat back and forth.

And poor old Bombur falls into the stream.
Thorin's words to him about grumbling were pointed out already - the flying deer hitting him seem very much like the fulfilling of a curse.
Tolkien also indicates Bombur continued grumbling all the time, and one wonders whether Dwalin (who was relegated to the last boat - probably because he was supposedly a responsible chap) got so fed up with him, that he hurried to leave the boat, leaving Bombur behind?


The Narrator does give us hints that the forest is coming to an end but the Dwarves do not see this. Many lights are seen and will the Dwarves investigate even if it means leaving the path?


Quote


Yet if they had known more about it and considered the meaning of the hunt and the white deer that had appeared in their path, they would have known that they were at last drawing towards the eastern edge...





sador
Half-elven


Jul 18, 3:27pm

Post #45 of 50 (1393 views)
Shortcut
What annoyed the spiders more - the taunting words or the singing, high-pitched and out of tune? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, I was thinking of -
Never mind.


I also wonder if his lose of memory was temporary or if he ever did remember the events after a while.
That is a very interesting question, which I've never thought about. Thank you!


But if Gandalf was there, would he have said anything else of use? Is there anything Gandalf could have advised at this point?
He would give a lot of good, but irrelevant and generally useless, advice.
But he might have realised the significance of the hunt.


Hmmm, some struggling and starving people crossing a country's border and begging for food out of desperation, now what modern indeed current events does that remind me of?

Probably some Fake News you saw on the TV. Evil


They do not seem to have learned from Gandalf and go together in one go rather than, say, sending Bilbo first...
Like with the trolls? No, thank you. Once bitten twice shy.


all right Bilbo might be good at throwing things and playing darts and possibly Cricket, but it is one thing to say this and quite another for him of all the company to turn into a psychotic giant-spider killer!
If he's good at cricket, I for one have an immense faith in him.


I do wonder how much of an advantage been invisible was as it was pitch dark anyway and I presume that Bilbo was wearing dark clothes. Plus would the Spiders hunt as much by smell and feel anyway?
The clothes probably become invisible with him. But your two other points are excellent.


One other point I could make. Suppose that things had gone astray and the company had been mostly slain by the spiders or hunger. Maybe two or three could survive. But seen as later the Lotr company do not have any of these characters, even Gandalf is not their how would this have affected the rest of the legendruim apart from been a personal tragedy for these people of course!
There would probably have been no demand for a sequel, and the legendarium would consist of a few Silmarillion manuscripts nobody was interested in reading.


Now obviously his songs would have no effect on us,

I dunno. How would you like being called Old Fat Tomnoddy? Tolkien assures us this is insulting to anybody.


but it does show that the Hobbit is not above taunting his enemies if necessary.
As you've written before yourself:


Quote


this tale does get a little political from now on.




It does sound a little to me like gang members singing to others, 'Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough.



Quote

"That settles that," said Bromosel testily. "Yoo-hoo," he cried, "come and eat us," and from far away a deep voice echoed, "Me beastie, me do that thing."


Source.


do you know what series of horror/sci-fi movie franchise this reminds me a bit of? The alien series!

Never watched them. I'll take your word for it.


When they realize that someone is missing.
Dawlin does - redeeming himself after the boat fiasco.


Onto the next chapter.
Nothing about the Interrogation of Thorin?


Apart from one more question by me. The title of the chapter. The Spiders are obvious, but who are the flies?
Bilbo and his friends.


Quote

Here am I, naughty little fly...


Thank you, Hamfast!





Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 18, 8:37pm

Post #46 of 50 (1378 views)
Shortcut
"This site can’t be reached" [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll take your word for it, though I did not say it was never discussed.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 18, 8:39pm)


sador
Half-elven


Jul 19, 3:04am

Post #47 of 50 (1348 views)
Shortcut
Does this work? [In reply to] Can't Post

 http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_threaded;post=429799;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;


CuriousG
Half-elven


Jul 19, 12:30pm

Post #48 of 50 (1323 views)
Shortcut
Leading the Glamourous life [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf entered Dol Guldur “in disguise.” Now, maybe he was wearing his orc Halloween costume, or more likely, he did the glamour spell thing.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 19, 12:40pm

Post #49 of 50 (1322 views)
Shortcut
Interesting read [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks! I could access the post that time, though I wonder why H.G. assumed that Fili and Kili were twins? Their father probably was a Longbeard, though as Dís did not marry until after Thráin led his folk to the Blue Mountains, her husband could have been a Dwarf of either the Broadbeams or Firebeards. I'll save the subject of succession in the Line of Durin for the read-though of Chapter 18.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Jul 20, 8:07pm

Post #50 of 50 (1314 views)
Shortcut
About Spiders senses [In reply to] Can't Post

i must say that i am not sure if Spiders do have a sense of smell in the fact that do they have noses? But I think that our spiders at least can sense food without looking for it. In which case, Bilbo must have been sensed as a very tasty, sweet creature! Though possibly the Spiders might not have known precisely where he was. A thought, however!

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.