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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
***The hobbit-read-through: Ch4 Over Hill and Under Hill
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Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Jun 15, 10:04pm

Post #76 of 79 (1031 views)
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Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia using slaves? [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe, but lets not forget entities like the Roman Empire, Classical Greece, even the USA and in effect the British Empire doing the same!


squire
Half-elven


Jun 15, 11:06pm

Post #77 of 79 (1018 views)
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I thought of the slaves of Nurnen [In reply to] Can't Post

But they seem to be from a completely different conception, involving Sauron's despotic empire of Mordor. Your speculation was about the culture of the orcs as orcs, not when they have become enlisted as soldiers and workers of a mighty empire of black magic and industrialism. In short, the plantation slaves of Mordor are Sauron's slaves, not the orcs' slaves.

There is, nevertheless, no mention of Gondorians or other westerners being part of that economy either. Aragorn gives the slaves the lands to be their own; implying that they are native to the region or to nearby lands. If he had liberated and returned to freedom enslaved kinsmen of his kingdom, one would certainly expect that to have been mentioned!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Plurmo
Rohan

Jun 17, 1:17am

Post #78 of 79 (885 views)
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That insight is most interesting. [In reply to] Can't Post

"arguably, he did not think that hobbits will ever become an integral part of the Middle-earth mythology."

Yet again what applies to Tolkien also applies to how Bilbo would have seen things at that point, had he been the writer. Hobbits as a thing apart.

When the difference between Elrond in The Hobbit and Elrond in LOTR was being discussed I was thinking that Tolkien was unsure about how much of his imaginary world he could impart on a novice reader. Would he go with his full Elrond or would he go with another distinct character with the same name, like Nandor Denethor and Gondor Denethor? He goes for neither and both. It ends up reflecting how Bilbo, at that point, would not be able to understand Elrond's lineage and the meaning of half-elvenhood at all. In fact it takes the reader to go way inside The Silmarillion to understand Elrond, and that is Translations from the Elvish, a fairly later work of Bilbo's.

In hindsight, there seems to be a lot of premeditated luck, or whatever great artists use for filling the void of doubt with wonder.


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Jun 17, 10:19pm

Post #79 of 79 (747 views)
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Actually to be fair on this one [In reply to] Can't Post

He does seem to have an anti-war machines beat as well remembering his comments about Goblins inventing machines that troubled the world today. So an environmental friendly, weapons trade opposing Tory. Well, I am sure that there are, well, dozens of them!

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