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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
PJ confirms involvement in Amazon series!
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Silmaril
Rohan


Jun 6, 8:48am

Post #1 of 99 (3513 views)
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PJ confirms involvement in Amazon series! Can't Post

PJ will not be the showrunner but he is compiling the creative team for the series right now.
He got a phone call from Amazon one year ago. Their plans for the show sounded fascinating and very exciting to him.

http://de.ign.com/...-hinter-der-herr-der


(This post was edited by Silmaril on Jun 6, 8:53am)


mae govannen
Tol Eressea


Jun 6, 11:00am

Post #2 of 99 (3299 views)
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So it is confirmed!... [In reply to] Can't Post

This sounds also fascinating and very exciting to me, but... I don't understand German, alas!...
Thank you for your summary, Silmaril! Wink

'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)


Silmaril
Rohan


Jun 6, 11:12am

Post #3 of 99 (3291 views)
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You're welcome, though... [In reply to] Can't Post

I already see Legolas and Tauriel jumping around before my eyes. I hope that the series will turn out different from The Hobbit trilogy!


(This post was edited by Silmaril on Jun 6, 11:16am)


InTheChair
Lorien

Jun 6, 11:25am

Post #4 of 99 (3284 views)
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It says basically what Silmaril summarized. [In reply to] Can't Post

Though German is also not my first language, I believe it says Jackson will not direct. He did not wish to commit to a full five seasons. That Jackson was an obvious choice for Amazon to turn to because of the groundbreaking LotR:s and Hobbit movies, and that Jackson can ensure that the creative team gets a good Middle-Earth knowledge.

Pending corrections from someone who actually knows German.


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Jun 6, 11:59am

Post #5 of 99 (3275 views)
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sounds very promising [In reply to] Can't Post

I eagerly await the full translation to read the details but this sounds terrific and much of what I have been hoping for. Jackson is a visionary and his depiction of Middle-earth was 90% amazing and breath taking. Sure, there were bumps in the road - but it was tremendous.

If he is playing a central role in the design and look of it and it will be consistent with his six films it is most welcome news.

Perhaps it also means that our familiar versions of Gandalf and Galadriel and Elrond will grace our small screens as well?


Silmaril
Rohan


Jun 6, 12:19pm

Post #6 of 99 (3266 views)
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That's my translation of what PJ said [In reply to] Can't Post

"I had a phone call by Amazon about a year ago. And it sounded like they would do the right thing, they have very good intentions with the series. For me everything was very fascinating and exciting.
But I don't want to be the one who is responsible for the whole show because I have never done a TV series that's that long. It would not be very clever when I would take the job of the showrunner.
What I'm basically doing right now is compiling the creative team (behind the series)."




Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 6, 1:49pm

Post #7 of 99 (3237 views)
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Thanks for the news Silmaril! [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope an English-language version of the article is soon in coming. I am glad that Peter Jackson is not the actual showrunner and that the show might still be free (or mostly free) of the film-continuity.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Silmaril
Rohan


Jun 6, 2:41pm

Post #8 of 99 (3212 views)
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The rest of the (short) article... [In reply to] Can't Post

is not that interesting. Just some speculations about the involvement of WETA, the use of The Silmarillion and the mention of PJs two trilogies.


(This post was edited by Silmaril on Jun 6, 2:43pm)


uncle Iorlas
Rivendell


Jun 7, 4:43am

Post #9 of 99 (3093 views)
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it matters, though [In reply to] Can't Post

Of all possibilities I dread this one the most. Jackson already had his shot at this story, and he made a right hash of it. Why on earth should some other great media power buy the rights to it, only to hand it right back to him? Are his lawyers just that good? Is it going to be impossible for anyone to make a modern screen interpretation of the book without dragging Jackson into it until he dies? May it not be so. I had such high hopes for this project, if only to clear the air after the last round. Just to see anything, anything else done with it.


Look, I know Peter Jackson is a bit of a sacred cow to a lot of our users. Frankly I can't begin to fathom why, but there it is. Here, because I don't post that often and certainly can't afford to get deep into some internet argument, is a thumbnail case against involving him, if there is still any hope for that.

First, although it is a bit off to the side of matters, I have never been able to forget this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afq0kVTOmks
It's a little blooper reel from King Kong, put together by Jackson himself for laughs. Start at about three minutes and watch for a few seconds. It's literally only on screen for a second, but just to sum up, he starts with an image of a gorilla, draws a black person's haircut onto it, and snickers like a naughty little boy. I think it's the same sort of I-don't-even-notice-when-I'm-being-racist we've come to expect from the American president lately, but please, equating Africans with apes is about the most well-worn cliche in the entire racist repertoire. Just on a personal level, I can't have any warmth for the man after seeing that clip.

But more to the point, as a filmmaker, he is essentially a special effects guy. He's great at that, and his LOTR movies were visually lovely, almost all the time, leaving aside Lothlorien, which looked like an episode of Outer Limits. Costumes, sets, props, scenery, animations, all fantastic. That's what he does.

But there it ends. As a filmmaker, his defining characteristic is that he simply cannot tell the difference between good writing and bad writing. It's like he's colorblind. It just isn't there for him.

So it's not so much that he made changes, because I would never expect anybody to transpose any book to film without making any changes, but that his dialogue and storytelling were just shabby, full of shouting and blunt aggression, empty of subtlety, often making no sense. I could go on a long time about details, I'll try not to actually do that, but that's what makes his many changes to the story sting extra: it would have been so easy for him to use good material, since we know he had it sitting in front of him on the page. But again and again he decided it would be more fun to jettison that proven material in favor of some silliness of his own invention.

Anyway. I would dearly, dearly love for this Amazon series (which no power on earth or in heaven can stop, now) to go at things in a different way. For my blood, a little more artsy, a little less superhero comic, a little more Downton Abbey, something focusing on character and motivations centrally. But really, even a different flavor of bad would be a relief at this point in history. Let Jackson keep his millions and try someone else's take on it.


(This post was edited by uncle Iorlas on Jun 7, 4:47am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 7, 5:02am

Post #10 of 99 (3080 views)
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Or maybe not, unc. [In reply to] Can't Post

Before you started your post, maybe you should have looked at the thread just above this one that suggests that Jackson is not involved in Amazon's show--at least not directly and definitely not as the showrunner. A lot of the information that we're getting is still all over the place.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 7, 5:03am)


TheHutt
Gondor


Jun 7, 6:14am

Post #11 of 99 (3059 views)
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The other post... [In reply to] Can't Post

The other post did not come out until later.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet - Custom Booklet Project



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 7, 6:20am

Post #12 of 99 (3044 views)
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Oh, so? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The other post did not come out until later.


What's your point? It was still posted 12 hours before the post here by uncle Iorlas. There's no reason why he couldn't have seen it (though I'm not really castigating him for having overlooked it; it's just a shame that he did so).

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 7, 6:24am)


TheHutt
Gondor


Jun 7, 7:16am

Post #13 of 99 (3028 views)
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I meant... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the original post, not the replies to it. :)

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet - Custom Booklet Project



uncle Iorlas
Rivendell


Jun 7, 12:35pm

Post #14 of 99 (3000 views)
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Oh, I saw it. [In reply to] Can't Post

There may be hope in that--or not much, according to the even newer thread--but there is still plenty of room for anxiety while things aren't definite.


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Jun 7, 1:17pm

Post #15 of 99 (2995 views)
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how do we know [In reply to] Can't Post

So with all this information/denials over the last 2 days, how do we know that the entire young Aragorn stuff is legit and not part of the same unreliable rumor mill?


Lindele
Gondor

Jun 7, 1:18pm

Post #16 of 99 (3011 views)
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An answer [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Look, I know Peter Jackson is a bit of a sacred cow to a lot of our users. Frankly I can't begin to fathom why, but there it is.


I'm guessing it's because he is the only filmmaker alive who could have pulled off LOTR the way he did, which was basically perfect. The world building, the design, the music, the casting. Any other filmmaker would not have had the passion and resources to put so much love into it without major studio involvment. So yeah, we are a little biased when it comes to others coming in and trying to redo an already perfect cinematic world.


Lindele
Gondor

Jun 7, 1:20pm

Post #17 of 99 (2997 views)
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It seems we don't know anything [In reply to] Can't Post

The entire world was talking about DC vs Amazon for PJ two weeks ago, and that turned out to not be true (allegedly)...so...I think TORn is just speculating unfortunately.


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Jun 7, 1:47pm

Post #18 of 99 (2992 views)
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maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

perhaps its the $6 billion in Middle-earth revenue and the 17 Academy Awards including Best Picture?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 7, 2:15pm

Post #19 of 99 (2972 views)
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I know what you meant. [In reply to] Can't Post

My point still stands. But we digress. Angelic

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 7, 2:21pm

Post #20 of 99 (2970 views)
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Any involvement by Jackson seems to be minimal (if at all). [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are concerned about Peter Jackson having too much influence over this series, both articles suggest that you don't have much to worry about, at least from his end. The question becomes: What is the collective vision of the producers of the show?

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 7, 2:27pm

Post #21 of 99 (2962 views)
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We don't know. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So with all this information/denials over the last 2 days, how do we know that the entire young Aragorn stuff is legit and not part of the same unreliable rumor mill?


My best guess is that the Aragorn rumor is basically true, though we haven't had confirmation of it. The same for the story about Jackson's lack of involvement--though that might not represent the entire story. He still might have recommended some candidates for the creative team.

Addendum: And TheHutt seems to have discovered the truth about Jackson:


Quote
Due to the diametrally clashing interviews released yesterday by IGN Deutschland and French Allociné, the German portal Filmstarts.de asked both sites for clarification of their sources.
IGN could provide an audio recording of the interview with PJ which confirms their article:
- PJ is not involved directly with the Amazon series, and of course not as showrunner.
- However, he is "putting the creative team together" for the project.
- Also, he confirmed to be ready to participate in the project "in some capacity" and to help Amazon, as he is excited about their project.

The Allociné is still checking their interview as of now.

Source


"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 7, 2:38pm)


uncle Iorlas
Rivendell


Jun 7, 5:17pm

Post #22 of 99 (2931 views)
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yes and no [In reply to] Can't Post

Certainly there's a chance that PJ would select a batch of writers who will then do stellar work in his despite. But that's exactly the sort of judgment I don't trust him for. More chillingly, the choice to get him involved at all--I suspect, as a third party because Amazon and the estate have been unable to agree on a showrunner--raises the alarming specter of his movies being treated as the canon from which they are working, so that Amazon's great expense and the potential of a clean slate is reduced to a very expensive mill for prequels, sequels and spinoffs to his lousy starting point. Just such a wasted chance.

It's as if every screen representation of Batman since 1970 was obliged to treat the Adam West show as foundational canon and work from there. More different takes please!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 7, 5:29pm

Post #23 of 99 (2922 views)
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Walsh or Boyens? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, we will see whether Fran Walsh and/or Philippa Boyens end up on the team.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Jun 7, 6:48pm

Post #24 of 99 (2896 views)
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Estate [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you believe that Amazon would be foolish enough to allow the Estate to have veto power over who is the producer of this venture? WOW but that would be really dumb.


Ataahua
Superuser


Jun 7, 10:21pm

Post #25 of 99 (2870 views)
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I personally wouldn't go that far. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
others coming in and trying to redo an already perfect cinematic world.


There's a lot that PJ got right, especially in the LOTR films, but also a far bit that clanged. Even PJ said he wasn't trying to make the ultimate version of The Lord of the Rings because it couldn't be done; that he'd only make *his* version and hoped that others would like it. Which a heck of a lot of people did, overall.

I had hoped that PJ wouldn't direct The Hobbit as he'd be competing against himself, and I wanted to see what another director's take would be. I'm glad that we'll be able to see other Middle-earth stories through a different prism - which could well highlight just how good a job Pete did way back when.

My key concerns with the TV series are that the visuals and the 'feel' of Middle-earth sits within the world already built through the films, and that the writers can get under Tolkien's skin and bring out the spirit and tone of his work.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories

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