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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
THIS is exciting
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 18, 2:50am

Post #26 of 66 (1187 views)
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Might each season have a different focus? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
[BREAKING] We have confirmed from multiple sources that @AmazonStudios new billion-dollar #LOTR series will open its first season centered on a young Aragorn.


Note the wording. It is possible that only season one will be focused on Aragorn with subsequent seasons exploring other characters and places. Maybe season two will tell the story of Balin's attempt to reclaim Moria. And maybe a season will be about the last days of King Arvedui.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 18, 2:54am)


Beleg Cúthalion
The Shire


May 19, 8:41am

Post #27 of 66 (1039 views)
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I had a feeling about this... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ever since the news came out about Amazon's Middle-earth series, I had a feeling that at least one of the main plot lines would be about Aragorn's youth. It seems to be the only possible plot line that fits Amazon's description of the series. I do not know if they intend to keep this plot line throughout the entirety of the series, or if it will be the main focus of the first season; nevertheless, I am eager to see what they do with it, and if it will be worthy of Tolkien's work.


InTheChair
Rivendell

May 19, 1:05pm

Post #28 of 66 (996 views)
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Time jump between season you mean? That would be daring. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know how much they can cram into one season, but I don't see it as impossible to have two or three seasons of the Aragorn adventures, including some romance stuff with Arwen that they won't be able to keep their hands off. Then maybe another one and a half focusing on Balin and the dwarves, before going back to Gandalf and Aragorn hunting for Gollum. After that if they want to do more seasons they could move into Lord of the Rings proper. (Unless they intentionally style the series to be a direct prequel to Peter Jacksons movies.)

The one element that seems to be missing without an obvious way to shove it in there, are Hobbits. Which jumping back to time of King Arvedui might actually have provided.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 19, 1:23pm

Post #29 of 66 (988 views)
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Loose or Tight Format? [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, I think the show could easily concentrate on the journeys and errantries of Aragorn for an entire five or more seasons. I suspect, though that the producers are hedging their bets just in case the first season doesn't perform well and they decide that they need to change direction. Even if they do so, the show could still continue to focus on the years between the Battle of Five Armies and the War of the Ring. Or not.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


May 19, 5:35pm

Post #30 of 66 (972 views)
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Major battles during Aragorn's time? [In reply to] Can't Post

Did he participate in any battles in his young age? Could the burning of the Corsair's fleet be consider as a battle?


No One in Particular
Rivendell


May 19, 10:11pm

Post #31 of 66 (920 views)
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Absolutely... [In reply to] Can't Post

The burning of the Corsairs would count. As well as possibly countless other things he accomplished either while playing Thorongil or when he was in Rohan before Eowyn was born to grace it (assuming he used a different identity; he may not have).

I'm thinking they will likely want to film a first meeting scene between Gandalf and Aragorn. They could make it a huge thing full of suspense and foreshadowed significance, whatever that actual scene may have been in Tolkien's imagination.

While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 19, 10:25pm

Post #32 of 66 (917 views)
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Certainly there would have been battles. [In reply to] Can't Post

The raid that Aragorn (as Thorongil) led against the Corsair fleet at Umbar could count as a major battle; like the assault of the White Council on Dol Guldur in 2941, Tolkien doesn't go into much detail, so there is plenty of room for interpretation.

Likewise, we don't have many specifics about the entire period of Aragorn's journeys and errantries; he doubtless saw action at least a few times against any number of unnamed opponents: Raiding Orcs; Trolls; spiders of Mirkwood; pirates on the Sea of Rhûn; discontented followers of the late King Fengel; Dunlending bandits; monsters of Moria; Easterling raiders; more Orcs; Southron spies; Corsairs.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 19, 10:29pm)


InTheChair
Rivendell

May 20, 9:27am

Post #33 of 66 (836 views)
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Would almost be impossible not to show it as a battle. [In reply to] Can't Post

The sacking of Umbar, or at least the destruction of their fleet would certainly translate to a major on-screen battle yes.

There's also the re-taking of Osgiliath around the same period.

Plus he served king Thengel in Rohan, but it's not specified if that was in battle.

And that's just going by the books. There's no end of course to what they could make up themselves, if it is battles they are looking for.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 20, 2:30pm

Post #34 of 66 (804 views)
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Aragorn's raid at Umbar [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
'Thorongil often counselled Ecthelion that the strength of the rebels in Umbar was a great peril to Gondor, and a threat to the fiefs of the south that would prove deadly, if Sauron moved to open war. At last he got leave of the Steward and gathered a small fleet, and he came to Umbar unlooked-for by night, and there burned a great part of the ships of the Corsairs. He himself overthrew the Captain of the Haven in battle upon the quays, and then he withdrew his fleet with small loss. But when they came back to Pelargir, to men’s grief and wonder, he would not return to Minas Tirith, where great honour awaited him.'


The single paragraph above represents almost all that we know about the raid carried out by Aragorn in T.A. 2980 against the Corsair fleet. We also know from Tolkien's legendarium that the raid must have taken place early in the year, perhaps even before the start of spring. We learn from "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" that: "...in the hour of victory he passed out of the knowledge of Men of the West, and went alone far into the East and deep into the South, exploring the hearts of Men, both evil and good, and uncovering the plots and devices of the servants of Sauron." Oh, and in between his departure from Gondor and his journeys into the East and South, Aragorn took the time to be reunited with the lady Arwen in Lothlórien, where they plighted their troth at Midsummer upon the hill of Cerin Amroth.

Given the size of Thorongil's fleet, I do not think they would have been able to sack the City of Umbar, but they needed to concentrate on their mission to disable the Corsair fleet.

I don't recall any major offensive taking place in Osgiliath during the period of Aragorn's errantry in Gondor. Are you thinking of the liberation of the city by Boromir I after it was taken by Uruks of Mordor in the year 2475? If so, then you are off by 500 years. That doesn't rule out the possibility that Thorongil might have had need to defend Osgiliath as an outpost against one or more raids.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 20, 2:31pm)


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


May 20, 3:53pm

Post #35 of 66 (791 views)
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Battles are necessarry [In reply to] Can't Post

Like GOT, the major battles are some of the highest viewed episodes. I think the burning of the Corsairs fleet could the LOTR Blackwater battle. And Thorongil helping Echtelion hold or retake major parts of Osgiliath could be expanded on.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 20, 6:09pm

Post #36 of 66 (775 views)
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I'm not disagreeing with you. [In reply to] Can't Post

I am only pointing out that Tolkien did not mention many specific skirmishes or other battles that involved Aragorn during the time of his journeys and errantries. However, we can be sure that he did not find this period entirely peaceful! Smile

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


InTheChair
Rivendell

May 20, 7:33pm

Post #37 of 66 (752 views)
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The description doesn't leave room for a sacking of the city, though with artistic license there's no telling what Amazon will make of it [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I don't recall any major offensive taking place in Osgiliath during the period of Aragorn's errantry in Gondor. Are you thinking of the liberation of the city by Boromir I after it was taken by Uruks of Mordor in the year 2475? If so, then you are off by 500 years. That doesn't rule out the possibility that Thorongil might have had need to defend Osgiliath as an outpost against one or more raids.


I was thinking of a stray line that one of the minor Minas Tirith characters say in LotR:s. Don't remeber now if it was Beregond, or Ingold or someone else, but they say about Osgiliath, that we retook it in Denethors youth, which must land it around the same time period.

Although retook may of course just have meant that they walked in and fortified an already empty city. There's a small opening there for Amazon to make something else of it.

I can look the quote up tomorrow, I'm basing this only on some kind of memory now. I don't think the event is mentioned in the tale of years however, which is a strange omission.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on May 20, 7:34pm)


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


May 20, 8:10pm

Post #38 of 66 (743 views)
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Minas Ithil [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, my previous comment wasn't aim at you. I was just saying this show needs some great battles that's all Smile

Btw, if this show continues in the Jackonsverse, could they perhaps include the Nazgul's capturing of Minas Ithil during Thorongil periode?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 20, 10:58pm

Post #39 of 66 (721 views)
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Oh, I see! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, there was probably a lot of back-and-forth over the years that might have included a number of brief periods when the remains of Osgiliath were not under Gondor's control and had to be retaken. I was concentrating more on the appendices where I can't recall any mention of such incidents in the decades just before the War of the Ring. You might well be correct.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 20, 11:01pm

Post #40 of 66 (718 views)
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My mistake. Your reply was linked to my own. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Oh, my previous comment wasn't aim at you. I was just saying this show needs some great battles that's all Smile

Btw, if this show continues in the Jackonsverse, could they perhaps include the Nazgul's capturing of Minas Ithil during Thorongil periode?


IF the show continues the continuity of the Jackson films, they might be able to make such a change. My hope would be that they don't do it.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


InTheChair
Rivendell

May 21, 6:20pm

Post #41 of 66 (660 views)
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Found the quote. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's from the chapter Minas Tirith. Pippin and Beregond are standing on the walls looking towards the river and Beregond says:

that is the ruin of Osgiliath on either side of Anduin, which our enemies took and burned long ago. Yet we won it back in the days of the youth of Denethor

There were two stewards named Denethor. The first between 2477-2489 (not sure when his youth would have been), and then there's the Denethor in LotR:s.

According to Tale of Years Osgiliath was finally ruined in 2475. This was also the time when a fairly stable period under the stewards came to an end. Osgiliath had been attackad and retaken probably more than once since the days of the Kings, so it is not of course impossible that Beregond is referring to Denethor I, but given that he does not mention a number, and what we can get from Tale of years it seems more likely he is referring to Denethor II.

Denethor II youth probably place the event some time after BoFA, but before the burning of the ships at Umbar. Probably also before Aragorn comes to Minas Tirith, though Amazon could include it as a character building piece for Denethor.

Strangely no mention is made of the event in Tale of Years. Not even if it had been Denethor I.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on May 21, 6:21pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 21, 11:11pm

Post #42 of 66 (618 views)
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The recapture of Osgiliath in 2475. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Strangely no mention is made of the event in Tale of Years. Not even if it had been Denethor I.


Beregond (and Tolkien himself?) may have been misremembering his history of Gondor. It was Boromir I, not his father Denethor I, who retook Osgiliath after the city was overrun by Uruks. This Denethor was the tenth Ruling Steward of Gondor (2435-2477). His son succeeded him as the eleventh Ruling Steward (2477-2489). However, Boromir's reign was brief as he received a Morgul-wound that shortened his life. Denethor I died at the age of 102.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 21, 11:12pm)


Helcaraxe
Registered User

May 25, 3:18pm

Post #43 of 66 (524 views)
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Aragorn [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
[BREAKING] We have confirmed from multiple sources that @AmazonStudios new billion-dollar #LOTR series will open its first season centered on a young Aragorn.

Shame they weren't more ambitious and start with the second age. I think there is far more scope for telling a more epic tale, with characters related to LOTR such as, Sauron, Elrond, Isildur etc. Taking it from the tales of Numenor and right through to the last alliance would have made a direct link to the story of the Ring. Can't see Aragorn's story stretching to 10/12 episodes without a lot of padding a la Walking Dead. "Episode 5, Aragorn wanders through the hills around the Shire. Aragorn stops off overnight at the Prancing Pony, Aragorn visits Arwen in Rivendell, Aragorn kills a few pillaging orcs, Aragorn meets Gandalf for a chat...........................etc Frown. I hope to be proved wrong!!



Nierestel
Registered User

May 25, 6:43pm

Post #44 of 66 (508 views)
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Re: second age [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd love to see all the history there. I just wonder how much they could get out of the appendices for that, since it seems like they only got rights to LotR (so they'd have to probably avoid details from other works that would otherwise flesh it out). Maybe we can hope for more in the future if this is well done and successful.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 25, 11:17pm

Post #45 of 66 (471 views)
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No Shire in the Second Age [In reply to] Can't Post

Hobbits don't appear in the history of MIddle-earth until the Third Age, so that might have been a factor in the decision. I've speculated that only the first season of the show might focus on Aragorn's early travels, depending on how well they are received. After that the focus might change to other characters and events (such as the last days of the North-kingdom of Arthedain or Balin's attempt to recolonize Moria).


Perhaps the Second Age could be the setting for a potential spin-off show.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 25, 11:24pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 25, 11:23pm

Post #46 of 66 (466 views)
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Challenges of a Second Age series [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'd love to see all the history there. I just wonder how much they could get out of the appendices for that, since it seems like they only got rights to LotR (so they'd have to probably avoid details from other works that would otherwise flesh it out). Maybe we can hope for more in the future if this is well done and successful.


There isn't much from the existing sets built by Weta that could be used in a series set in the Second Age (mostly the Rivendell sets). There might be enough material in the appendices to support such a show. I might be content if any additional details don't outright contradict what Tolkien wrote in other sources that were included in The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


May 28, 8:18pm

Post #47 of 66 (331 views)
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Fictional antagonist to young Aragorn? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sauron is the main bad guy, but maybe a black numenorean leader from the Corsairs can be the main baddie for this show?


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


May 28, 8:21pm

Post #48 of 66 (329 views)
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Recapturing of Osgiliath [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorongil service during the earlier years of Osgiliath being under siege by Morgul orcs? We know Osgiliath has been frequently attacked many times by Mordor's forces until Boromir and Faramir managed to push them back(Jacksonverse)


InTheChair
Rivendell

May 28, 9:40pm

Post #49 of 66 (315 views)
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maybe a black numenorean leader from the Corsairs can be the main baddie for this show? [In reply to] Can't Post

Since they are extremely likely to include the burning of the ships at Umbar, we can be more or less certain that there will be a Black Numenorean/Southron chief as one of the main henchmen, though Sauron will of course always be the main villain behind the scenes.

If they wished it they could even go with the Black Serpent or the Mouth of Sauron, but that would deprive Aragorn the chance of making a major kill, so presumably they will invent a new one.

They also have the option of going with one or more of the Nazgul as long as they keep it east of the Anduin, but I think Umbar qualifies for that.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on May 28, 9:43pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 29, 3:15am

Post #50 of 66 (301 views)
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Do we need a main villain? [In reply to] Can't Post

The ultimate baddy is, of course, Sauron. But he is a distant threat whose presence is felt primarily through the schemes and actions of his servants. I do not think the show should jump straight into Aragorn as Thorongil in service to the Steward Ecthelion in Gondor, so I don't believe that it needs to have an over-arching villain looming over the entire first season.

If the show starts out before Aragorn travels to Rohan then I expect that there will be a number of antagonists for Aragorn to confront, and not all of them might be evil. At the same time, Aragorn (possibly with Gandalf) could encounter:
- Barrow-wights near Bree.
- Bandits in the Lone-lands of Eriador.
- Orcs from Mount Gram.
- a lesser Wraith (servant of the Nazgûl) searching the ruins of Fornost Erain or Annuminas.
- Morgoth cultists in the Vales of Anduin.
- Monsters of Mirkwood Forest.
- Spies or other agents of Sauron in Lake-town and/or Dale.
- Intrigues in Dorwinion (if the show gets that far East) and pirates on the Sea of Rhûn.

When Aragorn is in Rohan, he would likely have to deal with such problems as:
- plots hatched in secret by Saruman (whose involvement must remain undiscovered).
- malcontents who served the late King Fengel.
- Orcs from the Misty Mountains.
- conflicts with the Dunlendings.
- Aragorn becomes aware of the plight of the Woses.
- Easterling raiders.

In Gondor, Aragorn should face conflicts from both within and without:
- lords of Gondor corrupted by Sauron and his agents.
- rivalry with Denethor, son of Ecthelion.
- Haradrim and Mordor-orcs in South Ithilien.
- Corsair raiders in the Bay of Belfalas.
- A magical plague created by Black Númenórean sorcerers.

A captain who claims Númenórean descent could very well be a recurring antagonist for 'Thorongil' in Gondor. Several of us seem to like this idea. Perhaps this could be the very same Corsair who Aragorn confronts during his raid on Umbar in 2980.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 29, 3:22am)

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