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This line in this old WWI newsreel caught my attention - I wonder if Tolkien was aware of it

Eruonen
Valinor


May 11, 3:06am

Post #1 of 9 (5553 views)
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This line in this old WWI newsreel caught my attention - I wonder if Tolkien was aware of it Can't Post

https://youtu.be/2QRftl3vFZ4?t=150

"They shall not pass!" Hmm, Gandalf spoke a similar phrase in the singular.


Moahunter
Rohan


May 11, 8:56am

Post #2 of 9 (5509 views)
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¡No Pasarán! [In reply to] Can't Post

It was also used by La Pasionaria (Dolores Ibarruri) 19th July 1936
calling on the people of Spain to defend the Second Spanish Republic.


Eruonen
Valinor


May 11, 1:34pm

Post #3 of 9 (5482 views)
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It seems to have been a well known phrase of heroic action during the writing years of LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

I can only assume Tolkien had heard it used and either consciously or unconsciously incorporated it. I suppose it could have come to him organically but being a WWI Vet and the usage coming to prominence it that action by the French I tend to think he rather liked it.


Bracegirdle
Valinor


May 11, 8:22pm

Post #4 of 9 (5445 views)
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And perhaps one of Tolkien's most misquoted phrases? [In reply to] Can't Post

as "You cannot pass!"

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




Attalus
Lorien


May 11, 9:26pm

Post #5 of 9 (5427 views)
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On ne passe pas! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
"They shall not pass" (French: On ne passe pas is a slogan used to express determination to defend a position against an enemy. "On ne passe pas" literally means "one does not pass"; this being a common French idiom to express interdiction.

It was most famously used during the Battle of Verdun in the First World War by French General Robert Nivelle. It appears on propaganda posters, such as that by Maurice Neumont after the Second Battle of the Marne, which was later adopted on uniform badges by units manning the Maginot Line.

- Wiki

I would bet the ranch that JRRT was quite aware of this slogan Pirate

We are the fighting Uruk-Hai! We slew the great warrior! Well, yeah, first he killed a bunch of us and another whole lot of Mauhúr's lads, and we had to shoot enough arrows into him to drop a Mûmak. But we got him!

(This post was edited by Attalus on May 11, 9:33pm)
Attachments: They shall not resized.jpg (29.9 KB)


Eruonen
Valinor


May 11, 9:32pm

Post #6 of 9 (5421 views)
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Oui - per Wiki [In reply to] Can't Post

"After the Germans captured Fleury on 23 June, Nivelle issued an Order of the Day which ended with the now-famous line: Ils ne passeront pas! (They shall not pass!).

[8] Nivelle ordered the employment of a creeping barrage when the French made their initial counter-stroke on 24 October.[9] The artillery supporting the infantry focused more on suppressing German troops as opposed to destroying specific objects. These tactics proved effective: French troops re-took Fleury on 24 October, as well as Fort Douaumont, whose capture by the Germans on 25 February 1916 had been highly celebrated in Germany."


squire
Half-elven


May 11, 9:58pm

Post #7 of 9 (5413 views)
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Wait, what exactly did Nivelle order? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Ils ne passeront pas" or "On ne passe pas"?

The two previous posts have Nivelle saying both phrases, translated into English as "They shall not pass", at once. But that seems unlikely. Surely he only said it once. How could we find what he actually did say on June 23, 1916?

Another source I found says he ordered his men "Vous ne les laisserrez pas passer", translated as "you shall not let them pass". According to this account, the order was quickly "shortened" by the public or the press to ... wait for it ... on ne passe pas or ils ne passeront pas! (my emphasis). Both French phrases, apparently, would be used interchangeably for the rest of the war and in popular memory down to today, and neither is what Nivelle actually said.

Until we find a fourth account, anyway.

Source: "They Shall Not Pass" exhibit at the National WW I Memorial, Kansas City, Mo.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Eruonen
Valinor


May 11, 10:02pm

Post #8 of 9 (5412 views)
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"If only Nivelle were a wizard." [In reply to] Can't Post

"By midday, with German infiltration teams pushing hard towards Thiaumont and Fleury, the citadel at Verdun is on alert to prepare for a siege. There are two catchphrases which the French language gained from this battle. The first is Petain’s “On les aura!”, “We will get them”, from immediately after he took command. The second is issued today, as General Nivelle desperately tries to shore up the situation, to defend Fleury, to keep the enemy out of Fort Souville. After a little cleaning up for posterity’s sake, it reaches its final form. “Ils ne passeront pas!” “They shall not pass!” The French need to get the guns firing again.

If only Nivelle were a wizard. As it is, here’s the map at nightfall."

^^ ;) funny the writer also is thinking of Gandalf

https://makersley.com/...ouville-23-jun-1916/


Eruonen
Valinor


May 11, 10:07pm

Post #9 of 9 (5410 views)
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A game trailer using it [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJmFQwZV1zA

Battlefield 1 : Ils Ne Passeront Pas (Trailer FR)

https://en.wikipedia.org/.../They_shall_not_pass


(This post was edited by Eruonen on May 11, 10:09pm)

 
 

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