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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
WHy Gandalf versus The Nine on Amon Sul should be worked into film two


May 1 2008, 1:30pm

Views: 305
WHy Gandalf versus The Nine on Amon Sul should be worked into film two Can't Post

I have spoken on this before, but think in light of the forward progression of things it bears mentioning again.

One of the most riveting scenes alluded to in The Fellowship novel, but completely left out of the films, was the explosive and dynamic confrontation between Gandalf the Gray and The Nine Wraith-Kings upon the hill of Amon Sul, a battle which Aragorn and the four hobbits saw from afar as "lightning that leaps up from the ground", and from which Aragorn latter observed that the entire hill top was scorched and blasted as though by a great burning. Gandalf later explained that the burning was indeed his doing, as, "at nightfall they gathered around me, and I was besieged. . . I was hard put to it indeed. Such light and flame cannot have been seen on Weathertop since the war beacons of old. At dawn I escaped. . . I could not hope to follow you Frodo, and it would have been foolish to try with all the nine on my heels."

And now, my argument for why it should have a place in the second film, and where. First, of course, it is a fabulous scene in and of itself. Second, and more importantly, it will finally make amends for what most fans consider to be one of the most eggregiously offensive moments of the filmed trilogy. . . the utter blow out victory of The WItch King ( a phantom servant of Sauron) over Gandalf (an Angelic, if restricted, servant of The Valar). Also it will balance Aragorn and Arwen staving off Wraiths, when seen compared with Gandalf's fiery battle with all the Nine. And trust, they meant to capture or "kill" Gandalf, but could not manage it. When they fought Aragorn, they had accomplished their main goal with Frodo, and more importantly DID NOT KNOW who Aragorn was. Had they known him to be Aragorn heir of Isildur whom Sauron had long sought to identify and slay, they would not have let him escape either. They DID know Gandalf, the chief and most persistent adversary of their master, so. . . you do the math.

Yet here is how ane where and why it could work. I cannot see the second film moving forward without some manner of Prequel detailing Gandalf's second fateful journey to Dol Guldur. Not only is this the "key" to the Erebor quest's beginnings, but it is also one of the most significant moments in the history of The Third Age. If not for that event, it is certain that the positive identification of Sauron would have come too late, perhaps only being fully realized as Smaug descended upon Rivendell, and an army of goblins, captained by The Nazgul and commanded as a whole by a Balrog of MorgothWink tore through the fencing of Lothlorien.

It seems highly reasonable that the Nazgul might have been sent, in the Aftermath of Gandalf's discovery, to stop The Wizard from reaching Lorien or Rivendell and reporting the terrible truth he had learned. Sauron had fled before the power and discovery of Gandalf 9 centuries earlier and avoided being identified. Now, being stronger, he had not fled, but had been tagged. He would have been in great fear, realizing he had been discovered by the chief of his foes, for he could not have known with certainty that Saruman in his ambition would thwart the advice and urgings of Mithrandir, thus giving Sauron an added century for the preperation of a feint, defence and new plan. As far as he know, Gandalf might have reached the elves, and gathered Istari and Eldar alike to march against Dol Guldur within a fortnight.

Gandalf says, "Even I, Gandalf, barely escaped." And so it must be assumed that Sauron put every effort into stopping the Wizard from reaching his Elven allies. For the sake of film, the restoration of a great scene, and the amendment of an awful decision, The Nine could be involved in that attempt.

I know some smarty arty is going to say, "But THe Nine were At Minas Morgul" to which I say. . . you don't know where the Nine were. They had been sent to Minas Morgul nearly a thousand years before, but there is nothing stating that in all that time they NEVER made secret journeys between Mordor and Mirkwood. There is no detailed account of their every movement between 2000 and 2951. And if you are going to tow the line to perfection, the first Film already made error in showing and having Saruman re-affirm that "The Nine" had "Left Minas Morgul." According to the most strict accounts there had not been 9 Wraith-Lords in Minas Morgul for over 50 years, since 2951 when Sauron sent Khamul and two of the others to re-occupy Dol Guldur. Three from Nine leaves only six. Also, the films did not have any problem with placing characters where they did not belong, and I think Nazgul Trying to stop Gandalf from exposing their Master to The Council of The Wise, makes plenty more sense than Arwen, the only daughter of Elrond, whose mother had been captured, molested and tortured by orcs, being sent in the stead of Glorfindel, one of the mightiest of The Eldar, to rescue Frodo and risk battle with The Nine.

This scene would not only be spectacular for the visuals ( a pre-Glamdring moment indeed), but it would sure up some major competency questions raised ( in some places improperly) by the films concerning Gandalf and the Nine.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

Subject User Time
WHy Gandalf versus The Nine on Amon Sul should be worked into film two AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin May 1 2008, 1:30pm
    Even the mightiest can be slain by one arrow Owlyross Send a private message to Owlyross May 1 2008, 3:01pm
        Errors in your analogy Owlyross AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin May 1 2008, 3:59pm
    Two points... merklynn Send a private message to merklynn May 1 2008, 4:03pm
    Why it won't be included Compa_Mighty Send a private message to Compa_Mighty May 1 2008, 7:06pm
        Correct DiveTwin Send a private message to DiveTwin May 1 2008, 9:46pm
            I 100% agree with both Compamighty and DiveTwin - nt merklynn Send a private message to merklynn May 2 2008, 12:03am
                gandalf Gethsemane Send a private message to Gethsemane May 2 2008, 12:16am
            a great many people were offended by the staff breaking AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin May 2 2008, 12:57pm
                Would you please explain this Peredhil lover Send a private message to Peredhil lover May 2 2008, 1:29pm
                    Clarity AinurOlorin Send a private message to AinurOlorin May 6 2008, 3:16pm
                Gotcha DiveTwin Send a private message to DiveTwin May 2 2008, 1:36pm
                    Be careful what you bet... merklynn Send a private message to merklynn May 2 2008, 1:50pm
    Not happening Tolkien Forever Send a private message to Tolkien Forever May 1 2008, 8:44pm


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