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Altaira
Superuser
Mar 20 2018, 6:19pm
Post #26 of 51
(11674 views)
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I, too, never seem to be *not* busy these days, but I'm back on this.
As I see it, the options remain essentially the same as before: 1) de-bug the issue, 2) archive the old boards, 3) migrate the data to a different platform, 4) extract the data and clean it up. I placed them in that order because I've always preferred a 'work smarter, not harder' approach, which in this case would be to eliminate easier, less painful options if possible, until the last option left is extracting the data. If that's what it come to, then it 'is what it is, but there are issues involved that would have to be considered such as minimizing exposure of confidential information (emails and IP addresses), and the sheer vast amount of very, very ugly data. Even if scripts are used to do the initial clean-up, converting and organizing the end-product into something accessible would be daunting. I'm perfectly willing to go there, but I think it only makes sense to exhaust easier, more efficient options first.
A little more info on #s 1 & 2 above: when we moved to the new boards, I 'flipped a switch' to make the old boards read-only which you would think would essentially be the same as 'archiving' them. However, the issue that caused the problem still remained: the ability to switch between 'view modes' (i.e., threaded mode where all posts were visible, vs. the other mode where a topic had to be opened for the replies to be visible). I'm looking into whether the old boards could be turned back on with only one view option available, as well as other possible options to get around the issue. If not, I think archiving them, as in 'freezing them in time' would be the next best option. I have some resources, but if anyone knows anything about what archiving rpg boards involves, or would like to research it, it may be helpful as a next step.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Mar 20 2018, 6:58pm
Post #27 of 51
(11651 views)
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I am delighted--if I understand you correctly--to learn that the material is still preserved. That it was truly lost forever was my deepest concern. Thanks very much for the update!
Treason doth neuer prosper? What's the Reason?
for if it prosper none dare call it treason.
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Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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Altaira
Superuser
Mar 20 2018, 7:15pm
Post #28 of 51
(11656 views)
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I believe most of it is still available
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As I understand it, the issue wasn't one that would have corrupted the data; it was that every time anyone accessed the old boards, it unleashed bugs/conflicts to the point the server crashed, so Corvar turned off access for everyone, even read-only access (thus the noticeable decrease in issues in the past months). No guarantee that those bugs didn't also corrupt some data and, of course, even when the old boards were active, random threads would become unreadable. But, I believe the vast majority of data is still sitting there - an ugly duckling waiting to be turned into a swan. 
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Mar 20 2018, 8:21pm
Post #29 of 51
(11644 views)
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I know nothing about databases, or rpg boards, but I know there are people here who do. I'm ready to help in any way I am capable. So glad to hear that we may recover some, if not all, the old conversations.
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Mar 20 2018, 11:30pm
Post #31 of 51
(11625 views)
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I'm glad to know there's a chance this might be possible without too much work.
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about forums/rpg boards/archiving, and I suspect anything I can Google would turn up for anyone else.
I'd also like to emphasize that you have many Sam's willing to help carry the burden should the solution turn out to more like "work harder". It's very well be possible that such a task may be easier to complete with many hands than a simpler task done only by one pair of hands.
Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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a.s.
Valinor
Mar 26 2018, 2:28pm
Post #32 of 51
(11061 views)
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"an seileachan"
"A safe fairyland is untrue to all worlds." JRR Tolkien, Letters.
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Loresilme
Valinor
Apr 7 2018, 10:04pm
Post #35 of 51
(10910 views)
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There is hope then that those great discussions will be readable once more  .
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Altaira
Superuser
Apr 7 2018, 11:37pm
Post #36 of 51
(10925 views)
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A question for those of you who kept accessing the old boards
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How easy (haha - or should I say, how difficult) was it to access old posts? I know there were tricks of the trade for substituting things in a url, etc., but that it was often hit or miss. Is that option acceptable and/or ideal as a solution? It doesn't have to be a final solution. Mulling it over it's occurred to me that the final solution may be a journey comprised of a combination of things.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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squire
Half-elven
Apr 8 2018, 2:07am
Post #38 of 51
(10918 views)
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You learned to appreciate hexadecimal notation
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As Gramma said, the posts' addresses are in numeric format. So by changing the number at the end of a post's url, one could find a closely related post - the larger the difference in number, the later in the day, or week, a post would have been published. But the notation was in base-16, so along with digits 0-9, A stood for 10, B stood for 11, etc. until F stood for 15, and 16 rolled over to 0 with an increase in the value of the next number place.
The numbered urls, however, reflected chronological posting times for all messages on all the current topics of the board. I was focused on the Reading Room. Of course, people were posting on any number of active threads, in almost random order chronologically.
By steady application to the patterns of the numbers, and attention to the threaded publication of the discussions, one could retrieve all the urls of a given threaded discussion.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
 = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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Altaira
Superuser
Apr 8 2018, 3:32am
Post #41 of 51
(10906 views)
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Once a thread was 'found,' would it appear in threaded mode, flat mode, or could you toggle between the two once you were 'in' the thread? One of the issues that seemed to crash the boards was the ability to choose between different views. I'm just wondering how much that was done, if at all, after the old boards were made 'read only,' or if it was even an option. It seems like threaded view would be more useful. Thus, if flat view was locked out as an option, it wouldn't be a big deal.
It could be that even if people didn't toggle between the two options, the fact that they were both readily available 'aggravated' the software.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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Lissuin
Valinor
Apr 8 2018, 7:00am
Post #42 of 51
(10883 views)
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Sorry, sorry, gals and guys. Just my poor attempt to lighten the load. I am sooooo hoping you figure this out and sorry I can be of absolutely no use whatsoever. It floors me that you all speak the same language.
B=11
F=15
16 rolls to 0
Huh? 
So, best of luck with your endeavour.
Cheers.
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dernwyn
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 8 2018, 12:40pm
Post #43 of 51
(10858 views)
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Don't worry, there are only 10 kinds of people.
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Those who know binary, and those who don't.
(Aren't number systems fun?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I desired dragons with a profound desire"
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squire
Half-elven
Apr 8 2018, 1:29pm
Post #44 of 51
(10859 views)
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Well, that's how I remember it. Actually, I never got a 'board' view of a thread. Rather, I was opening single posts by pasting a specific url, hexadecimals and all, in my browser's address field. But, I think, every post had as an appendix a view of the thread that it was a part of, from which I could copy further post addresses and go on to view those posts. (I hope I'm not mixing up my memories of searching Old Board posts with New Board posts!)
I didn't think 'flat' mode was an option for the Old Boards. Wasn't that a feature added to the New Boards, to accommodate users who were used to that style from other message board sites?
When I was working on this stuff (building my RR archive, a few years ago), I don't remember viewing the old posts from 'within' the present TORn framework, with its Flat v Threaded options. Rather, I think I was getting the posts as standalone web pages, archivally available and not part of any active board structure.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
(This post was edited by squire on Apr 8 2018, 1:34pm)
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 8 2018, 2:08pm
Post #45 of 51
(10860 views)
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the boards were Threaded by default and we didn't have a Flat mode as we know it now...except I have a hazy memory of something called "collate replies" that could be done within a thread. Does that ring any bells or am I misremembering?
Silverlode
Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Apr 10 2018, 5:07am
Post #48 of 51
(10728 views)
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At least for me, it took a couple minutes each per post (that's post, not thread), and I soon despaired of ever finishing. This was around 2011. Now I realize I could have copied so much more before the lock-out--I wasn't thinking long-term!
By 2008, I had collected the URL of every thread (not post) then available in the Reading Room (going back to Jan. 2001, when the forums underwent some sort of upgrade and the early content was lost*). Then I began to undertake two other excruciatingly slow projects. One was to copy the content of old Reading Room threads. The other was to try to collect the URLs of Movie and Main forum threads, using the technique squire outlines here. I have extensive but woefully incomplete Excel workbooks with hexadecimal lists.
Treason doth neuer prosper? What's the Reason?
for if it prosper none dare call it treason.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven
Jun 1 2018, 6:06am
Post #50 of 51
(9322 views)
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I noticed a.s. mentioned that she'd still like to help with this project, as much as she is able, which prompts me to see if there's anything yet we can do.
Treason doth neuer prosper? What's the Reason?
for if it prosper none dare call it treason.
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.
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