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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Guillermo del Toro’s The Hobbit - What Do We Know?
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Noria
Gondor

Mar 27, 1:03pm

Post #26 of 35 (1158 views)
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You're right [In reply to] Can't Post

But the action sequences of LotR did get longer as the trilogy progressed, and sillier - as in the avalanche of skulls and corsair scenes. I dislike both of those.

PJ's action sequences often leave me a little cold upon first viewing but in rewatching I come to appreciate the choreography, the mini-story being told and the character moments.

Most of us fans seem to have a kind of cause-and-effect thing going on with The Hobbit (and LotR) movies. I love the movies so I love almost everything about them and I love the movies because there are so many great elements in them. People who dislike the movies as a whole are irked by almost everything about them and those same aspects are what makes them dislike the movies. Wink


Silmaril
Rohan


Mar 27, 2:02pm

Post #27 of 35 (1151 views)
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Yes, it got more from film to film. [In reply to] Can't Post

But in TH it feels like half of the movies are action scenes.

The other thing is the comedy stuff. I liked it in LOTR but not in TH. It is somehow different...

Too many changes and bad fan fiction.


(This post was edited by Silmaril on Mar 27, 2:07pm)


Noria
Gondor

Mar 28, 12:03pm

Post #28 of 35 (1113 views)
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The Hobbit novel is more comedic than LotR the book [In reply to] Can't Post

There is definitely a different, more comedic, tone in TH movies intended to reflect that. It doesn't work for everybody.

In my opinion the amount of juvenile "PJ" humour in The Hobbit trilogy is about the same as in the LotR films.

I get that you wanted a smaller Hobbit movie that was closer to the book. Many did and it's sad that they were disappointed. I never thought that approach was feasible and anyway I wanted bigger Hobbit movies that reflected the larger world of LotR.

I maintain that there is not much of the Hobbit story from the book that is not in the movies, but other stories (those of Gandalf, Thorin, Thranduil, Bard etc.) have been included and embellished to make the movies deeper and richer.

IMO it's incorrect to call that stuff fan fiction because Jackson, Walsh, Boyens are professional film makers not amateurs, whether or not one likes what they produced.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Mar 28, 1:03pm

Post #29 of 35 (1110 views)
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Additions vs. Changes [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I maintain that there is not much of the Hobbit story from the book that is not in the movies, but other stories (those of Gandalf, Thorin, Thranduil, Bard etc.) have been included and embellished to make the movies deeper and richer.

IMO it's incorrect to call that stuff fan fiction because Jackson, Walsh, Boyens are professional film makers not amateurs, whether or not one likes what they produced.

ecause Jackson, Walsh, Boyens are professional film makers not amateurs, whether or not one likes what they produced.

Many of the specific examples you cite are additions from The Lord of the Rings and its appendices. I'm not sure that Silmaril was objecting to simply expanding on the story using Tolkien's larger legendarium. The history between the Woodland Realm and Angmar and the fate of Thranduil's queen are new to the films. So is the establishment that Bard already had a family at the time of the Quest of Erebor (Tolkien never specified that Bard didn't have a family at that time, but it is generally assumed that he wedded and fathered Bain some time after the restoration of Dale).

If Silmaril is mostly uncomfortable to Jackson's original additions and changes from the book then I agree on many points. The addition to the history of Eriador of the Nazgűl tombs is awkward and unnecessary; the Kili/Tauriel ship feels out of place; allowing Azog to survive to become part of the main narrative sidelines the role of Dáin Ironfoot in the history of the Longbeards, etc. The story of Thranduil's queen might have worked better if it was better thought out and explained (this war between the Wood-elves and Angmar happened well before the birth of Tauriel? So when did the Elvenking commission the necklace from Thror, who wouldn't even have been born until roughly 200 years after the birth of Tauriel?).

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Mar 28, 1:09pm)


Silmaril
Rohan


Mar 28, 1:36pm

Post #30 of 35 (1100 views)
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I was open for additions in the beginning... [In reply to] Can't Post

But that love story for example did not fit for me. Bard's family and Alfrid did nothing essential for me than wasting time. The problem with additions from the appendices are that they are not written in detail. There are no dialogues which are very important for making a movie!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Mar 28, 2:11pm

Post #31 of 35 (1101 views)
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Alfrid and the Master [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But that love story for example did not fit for me. Bard's family and Alfrid did nothing essential for me than wasting time. The problem with additions from the appendices are that they are not written in detail. There are no dialogues which are very important for making a movie!

Well, there's some dialogue (though not much) provided by the appendices--mostly in Appendix A.

To continue our digression from del Toro's Hobbit, I have wondered if the Master was originally intended to survive Smaug's attack on Lake-town in Jackson's original two-film construction, only to perish later with stolen treasure as he did in the book.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Petty Dwarf
Bree


Mar 29, 6:56pm

Post #32 of 35 (1059 views)
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Alas not. [In reply to] Can't Post

The reason that Alfrid took over the gags that would have been much less grating if Steven Fry had been doing them is that they had already filmed the Master's death scene back when it was going to be two movies, and could not get Mr. Fry back for additional scenes due to scheduling issues.

"No words were laid on stream or stone
When Durin woke and walked alone."


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Mar 29, 8:41pm

Post #33 of 35 (1054 views)
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Closure for the Master [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose that was so there could be closure on the Master's character-arc without the need to reveal it in an epilogue (that could have been the visit from Gandalf and Balin years later).

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Mar 30, 10:38pm

Post #34 of 35 (908 views)
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One thing about the Master bit [In reply to] Can't Post

I did genually laugh out loud when the Master was escaping from Lake-Town at the start of Bofa and was saying very drolly something like 'well, yes of course we have to hurry there is a great big dragon coming here isn't there!' almost like a top civil servant might be annoyed about paper clipps been out of place. And I must say that I did not laugh too much during the Lotr movies


Silmaril
Rohan


Mar 31, 11:07am

Post #35 of 35 (849 views)
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The Master's death... [In reply to] Can't Post

and Bard's prison break was absurd for me.

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