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Gothmog_Balrog
Registered User
Feb 5 2018, 3:10pm
Post #1 of 7
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Can Fallen/ Evil Maiar Repent?
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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but can fallen/ evil Maiar (i.e. Gothmog, Ungoliant, even Saruman) change their ways and, in sense, repent? Let me know, Thanks!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 5 2018, 3:52pm
Post #2 of 7
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I would have to say that it is possible, if only because Gandalf seemed to think so and I'm not about to argue with him! Also, the Valar seemed to believe that redemption was possible.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Attalus
Lorien
Feb 5 2018, 6:38pm
Post #3 of 7
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Tollers was a devout Roman Catholic and St. Thomas Aquinas, with whom he was of course familiar, wrote that repentance is always always possible. The sin that prevents it is, of course, Pride.
We are the fighting Uruk-Hai! We slew the great warrior! Well, yeah, first he killed a bunch of us and another whole lot of Mauhúr's lads, and we had to shoot enough arrows into him to drop a Mûmak. But we got him!
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Eldy
Tol Eressea
Feb 5 2018, 7:54pm
Post #4 of 7
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Although his rebellion didn't last very long and he didn't have a chance to do nearly as much evil as Gothmog or Sauron (TS, Valaquenta).
Melkor hated the Sea, for he could not subdue it. It is said that in the making of Arda he endeavoured to draw Ossë to his allegiance, promising to him all the realm and power of Ulmo, if he would serve him. So it was that long ago there arose great tumults in the sea that wrought ruin to the lands. But Uinen, at the prayer of Aulë, restrained Ossë and brought him before Ulmo; and he was pardoned and returned to his allegiance, to which he has remained faithful. For the most part; for the delight in violence has never wholly departed from him, and at times he will rage in his wilfulness without any command from Ulmo his lord. Therefore those who dwell by the sea or go up in ships may love him, but they do not trust him.
(This post was edited by Eldorion on Feb 5 2018, 7:54pm)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Feb 8 2018, 9:25pm
Post #5 of 7
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Osse is a good example; Sauron
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was given the chance to repent after Morgoth’s defeat when Beleriand was destroyed at the end of the 1st Age, and I recall Tolkien saying that Sauron came pretty close, but ultimately stayed away from Valinor out of fear, not out of commitment to being evil.
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Eldy
Tol Eressea
Feb 9 2018, 2:16am
Post #6 of 7
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The passage I think you're referring to is from "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age" or as I prefer to call it, OTROP, since that rolls off the tongue somewhat easier.
When Thangorodrim was broken and Morgoth overthrown, Sauron put on his fair hue again and did obeisance to Eönwë the herald of Manwë, and abjured all his evil deeds. And some hold that this was not at first falsely done, but that Sauron in truth repented, if only out of fear, being dismayed by the fall of Morgoth and the great wrath of the Lords of the West. But it was not within the power of Eönwë to pardon those of his own order, and he commanded Sauron to return to Aman and there receive the judgement of Manwë. Then Sauron was ashamed, and he was unwilling to return in humiliation and to receive from the Valar a sentence, it might be, of long servitude in proof of his good faith; for under Morgoth his power had been great. Therefore when Eönwë departed he hid himself in Middle-earth; and he fell back into evil, for the bonds that Morgoth bad laid upon him were very strong.
(This post was edited by Eldorion on Feb 9 2018, 2:17am)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Feb 10 2018, 11:27pm
Post #7 of 7
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Thanks for finding that passage; exactly what I was thinking of
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but of course, I couldn't remember where I'd read it. I'll add OTROP to the list of acronyms I should understand. I used to struggle with LOL, but I'm making progress.
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