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Battle of Five Armies and King solomon's Mines

CMackintosh
Registered User

Jan 11, 8:02am

Post #1 of 5 (1083 views)
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Battle of Five Armies and King solomon's Mines Can't Post

Hi

I'm wondering if this has occurred to any other of Tolien's fans, that at least part of The Hobbit is derived from King Solomon's Mines? Here are the reasons I think this is the case:

The individual concerned, the narrator in King Solomon's Mines and the central character in The Hobbit, is essentially an outside viewpoint in the battle.
The battle lines which the central character takes his place, are set on two hills, or two arms of one hill.
The character takes a minimal part in the battle.
The character ends his participation with being knocked out and wakes up when the battle has finished.

And if I remember correctly, Tolkien was at one stage a fan of H Rider Haggard's, in part I suggest, because it was about Africa, an Africa where the native Africans were held in some respect. (In one of his letters to Christopher during the Second World War, Tolkien makes it clear he held them in some respect.)

I could go on and suggest that Luthien Tinuviel is Ayesha - baptized, so to speak - and Tolkien only made progress with Beren's and her story once he realized that, but I'll wait till I've got some feedback on this first.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jan 11, 4:38pm

Post #2 of 5 (1044 views)
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Good catch! [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose as a boy [H. Rider Haggard's novel] "She" interested me as much as anything—like the Greek shard of Amyntas [Amenartas], which was the kind of machine by which everything got moving.
-Henry Resnick, "An Interview with Tolkien", Niekas, 1967.

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.





Attalus
Lorien


Jan 11, 7:02pm

Post #3 of 5 (1027 views)
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Shrug [In reply to] Can't Post

Ayesha is scary and controlling. (and the title character in She and its sequels). She is pretty amoral though charismatic. I would suggest that Galadriel would be a better avatar. Allan Quartermain would be a bit of a stretch for Aragorn, and is certainly no exiled king, but has a noble character and is suffering, in this case for the loss of his son (in the titular sequel) . AQ certainly has companions, but they are two, not eight. He is more Bilbo than Aragorn IMO

We are the fighting Uruk-Hai! We slew the great warrior! Well, yeah, first he killed a bunch of us and another whole lot of Mauhúr's lads, and we had to shoot enough arrows into him to drop a Műmak. But we got him!

(This post was edited by Attalus on Jan 11, 7:03pm)


CMackintosh
Registered User

Jan 15, 8:26am

Post #4 of 5 (956 views)
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Luthien and Ayesha; Bilbo and Quatermain [In reply to] Can't Post

The primary connection between Ayesha and Luthien, I would argue, is they are both immortal women loving mortal men. Ayesha's not a particularly nice person; while Luthien's a nice, courageous, selfless fighter for what and who she believes in.

I agree, Bilbo and Quatermain are the two people I'm referring to. (I'm not referring primarily to the battle before the Morannon in the The Return of the King: I'm referring to the Battle of the Five Armies in The Hobbit.) Before the Morannon, Pippin gets knocked out after killing a troll; on the Lonely Mountain Bilbo gets knocked out quite by accident. In the battle in Kukuanaland, Quatermain gets knocked out quite by accident.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jan 16, 9:53pm

Post #5 of 5 (917 views)
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See also "'She' and Tolkien, Revisited" in Jason Fisher's book. [In reply to] Can't Post

The book is J.R.R. Tolkien and the Study of His Sources (2011), which won the Mythopoeic Scholarship Award for Inklings Studies in 2014, and the essay in question is by John D. Rateliff (author of The History of The Hobbit). Some details here.

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