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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Dec 27 2017, 3:57pm
Post #1 of 24
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A new design for Sauron in the TV universe?
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Should he be like a dark lord in black cloth, perhaps with a helmet and his eyes visible?
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 27 2017, 4:45pm
Post #2 of 24
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I would like the series to explore the conceit that Tolkien introduced in the chapter Strider (and just as quickly abandoned) that the Enemy would "seem fairer and feel fouler".
So I think portraying Sauron as handsome, kind, and benevolent would be more interesting than the whole black cape and skullcap thing.
Basically the heroes would be going "He's evil I tell you! EVIL!!" While everyone else is going "Aw! He's just so good with children and other small helpless animals! And good-looking too!"
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The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Dec 27 2017, 5:37pm
Post #3 of 24
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The howling would be loud and long.
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I would like the series to explore the conceit that Tolkien introduced in the chapter Strider (and just as quickly abandoned) that the Enemy would "seem fairer and feel fouler".
So I think portraying Sauron as handsome, kind, and benevolent would be more interesting than the whole black cape and skullcap thing.
I could only support that if we were discussing Sauron as Annatar the Gift-lord, before his fair form was destroyed in the destruction of Númenor. I don't think that the Dark Lord in the Third Age should be anything less than terrifying in person.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Dec 27 2017, 6:15pm
Post #4 of 24
(7627 views)
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Move away from the armored knight?
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I want him to look terrifying too, but maybe a different design than what we've seen in the Jackson movies. Maybe closer to the vague description of him in the books? A dark priest\necromancer clothing with a handsome face, but with reddish eyes?
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MorgulBlade
The Shire
Dec 27 2017, 6:24pm
Post #5 of 24
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I want him to look terrifying too, but maybe a different design than what we've seen in the Jackson movies. Maybe closer to the vague description of him in the books? A dark priest\necromancer clothing with a handsome face, but with reddish eyes?
Yeah in the Hobbit was the closest we got to a 'personification' of Sauron, when Gandalf and Galadrial were facing him in the Necromancers keep.
Maybe present him as a darker version of the Istari?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Dec 27 2017, 6:58pm
Post #6 of 24
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I want him to look terrifying too, but maybe a different design than what we've seen in the Jackson movies. Maybe closer to the vague description of him in the books? A dark priest\necromancer clothing with a handsome face, but with reddish eyes?
Please, pardon me for using a secondary source, but I'll quote Robert Foster (in The Complete Guide to Middle-earth):
After the ruin of his body in the destruction of Númenor, Sauron had the form of a Man: his skin was black and burning hot. In the Third Age he most frequently appeared as a fearsome, ever-searching Eye.
If Sauron should appear as a physical entity in Amazon's series, the show could emphasize the blackened 'Burning Man' appearance over the Eye.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
Dec 27 2017, 7:26pm
Post #7 of 24
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It'll be interesting to see how much the TV show producers
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draw inspiration from Tolkien's works and letters and the studies of Tolkienology (for want of a better phrase) and how much they lean on expected tropes and designs to give viewers more of what they know from successful shows.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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squire
Half-elven
Dec 27 2017, 7:50pm
Post #8 of 24
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What is the vague description of him in the books?
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I don't remember any description, as such. I remember a mention by Gollum that Sauron is missing a finger; I remember that his eye, somehow expressed more psychically than physically, has a feeling of redness to it when perceived in the mind of one observed; I remember that one of the appendicial sources says he appears black and hideous in both his reincarnations after the Fall of Numenor. Elsewhere Tolkien says, I think, that Sauron like the High Elves and ancient Men is extremely tall by our modern standards, something like eight feet high.
Well, I guess "became black and hideous", combined with an eight-foot height, nine fingers, and an eye that flashes red in the mind, might qualify as a 'vague description'. But then what does it mean for a character's look to be 'closer' to that description in a new production than in previous shows?
Tolkien knew that Sauron, like the Black Riders, and most of his other monsters, are more fearsome in the imagination than they are when portrayed or described in detail. That was one of the reasons he frowned on attempts to illustrate fantasy works in any kind of 'realistic' style: fantasy works best when the mind of the reader provides the details.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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InTheChair
Rohan
Dec 27 2017, 7:59pm
Post #9 of 24
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Yeah in the Hobbit was the closest we got to a 'personification' of Sauron, when Gandalf and Galadrial were facing him in the Necromancers keep.
Except for flashbacks of the last alliance, where he was present in person.
The Sauron in the Hobbit movie is much more interesting.
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MorgulBlade
The Shire
Dec 27 2017, 10:03pm
Post #10 of 24
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Yeah in the Hobbit was the closest we got to a 'personification' of Sauron, when Gandalf and Galadrial were facing him in the Necromancers keep. Except for flashbacks of the last alliance, where he was present in person. The Sauron in the Hobbit movie is much more interesting.
I think so too. While the 'eye' in the tower in LOTR is interesting, we mostly see him act through his minions. its in the Hobbit where we see that he is on a level more powerful then Gandalf, and actively engages him even without the use of the ring in a face to face.
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duats
Grey Havens
Dec 28 2017, 8:18pm
Post #12 of 24
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I created a topic about Sauron's appearance in the Reading Room not too long ago, and several members suggested the idea of Sauron looking like some sort of evil pope or pharaoh, with a high crown and long black garments. With his skill as a smith, you could have him wear robes made of the finest chainmail (like Denethor in the films), instead of decking him out in typical plate armor.
(This post was edited by duats on Dec 28 2017, 8:19pm)
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Morthoron
Gondor
Dec 29 2017, 3:23am
Post #13 of 24
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Sauron was never so terrifying as when he was unseen: merely a malign presence orchestrating Wraiths and massive armies with the power to order their movements at a distance. And the only inkling of his sinister nature was Frodo's terrible vision of an eye wreathed in flame. The less one sees of Sauron, the better.
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
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Belegdir
Lorien
Dec 29 2017, 4:08pm
Post #14 of 24
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When we see our fears they generally become less fearsome. Let the fear of Sauron be something that permeates the show and creates atmosphere. Not a character to be seen.
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MoreMorgoth
Rivendell
Dec 29 2017, 9:28pm
Post #15 of 24
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The depiction of Sauron as a creature of dark smoke and wisps was very effective in DESOLATION OF SMAUG. The part where Agog was in Dol Guldur getting his orders from Sauron and then the confrontation with Gandalf were just about perfection as a depiction of Sauron.
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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Jan 8 2018, 2:34am
Post #16 of 24
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If this show is going to adapt Angmar's war against Arnor, then the Angmar movieverse must be dismissed right? Because he didn't die in the books, but clearly in the movie.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jan 8 2018, 3:16am
Post #17 of 24
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If this show is going to adapt Angmar's war against Arnor, then the Angmar movieverse must be dismissed right? Because he didn't die in the books, but clearly in the movie.
I'm not sure if the Ringwraiths were dead so much as immobilized when they were entombed. After all, they should have had their Wraith forms for several thousand years by then.
I've developed an idea that Arthedain might have fallen in TA 1974 as it did in Tolkien's legendarium, but Angmar might have continued for some time--falling approximately 400 years before the Quest of Erebor. At the very least, it provides an explanation for Elrond's watchful peace (which could not have been the Watchful Peace of which Tolkien wrote as Sauron inhabited Dol Guldur much too recently).
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Jan 8 2018, 4:01am
Post #18 of 24
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Good idea indeed. But how would you do Earnur's death? Or doesn't he exist in this universe? Also it depends if this tv show will separate itself from Jackson, which I think it probably will
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jan 8 2018, 3:01pm
Post #19 of 24
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Good idea indeed. But how would you do Earnur's death? Or doesn't he exist in this universe? Also it depends if this tv show will separate itself from Jackson, which I think it probably will
If we posit that the Ringwraiths in Jackson's continuity were not defeated near the end of the twentieth century of the Third Age, but several centuries later, then the Witch-king will still be around to call out King Eärnur to his presumed death. If anything, the problem only appears if we assume that the Nine are entombed before then. For that matter, we don't know, even from Tolkien, that Eärnur was killed outright. The possibility exists that the last king of Gondor might have been tortured with a Morgul-blade and transformed into a lesser Wraith.
I agree that the series will probably be its own thing, though there might be some nods to the films.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 8 2018, 3:06pm)
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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Jan 8 2018, 5:35pm
Post #20 of 24
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The tv show would likely be in it's own thing, but I do hope WB and Amazon can team up to make a anthology film set in the Jacksonverse. I don't want the Hobbit trilogy to be the last of Jackson's vision, even though I understand what people felt about those movies.
Anthology movies I could think of is: Battle of Dale and Mirkwood and Oath of Eorl.
Okay, I'm going to thread on very dangerous water with this idea, but I want Thranduil, Elrond, Galadriel and Celeborn to have some interaction with the world of Men in the first movie of my suggestions. Dunedains of the North or Dol Amroth men. Hell, it could even be a squad of Ithilien ranger. Maybe they could use Beregond that was cut out from ROTK. Maybe he was a different character in the movieverse than books.
In the Oath of Eorl, I want the Eotheod to have some interatction with Thranduil during their war against the Balcoth. I know Thranduil movie version was a isolanist and xenophobic against dwavers, but that doesn't mean he had anything against Men. Maybe the Eotheod came to ask for help, but he refuses? Then Legolas and Tauriel helped them in a cover mission with Eorl and Steward Cirion against the Balcoth and Mordor orcs?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jan 9 2018, 1:24am
Post #21 of 24
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If there are any spin-off films set in Jackson's Middle-earth then I expect that Warner Bros. would want to release them theatrically and probably would not partner with Amazon for them. The battles in the North during the last days of the War of the Ring certainly represent one possibility. As far as changes go, when the battles in Mirkwood and Lothlórien are won, the Wood-elves could come to Erebor to help to break the siege. Tauriel could function as a bridge between the Woodland Realm and the Men of Dale and the Dwarves.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
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Victariongreyjoy
Lorien
Jan 9 2018, 11:39pm
Post #22 of 24
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I do hope either WB or Amazon does a adaptation of War of The North. If Amazon do this, I'm afraid they will recast Thranduil, Elrond etc.. That's why I'm hoping for WB if they still have the rights to LOTR properties, because we can see some of the established characters from the movies.
I think Amazon should do a Oath of Eorl show. I want to see the forefathers of the Rohirrim battling Easterlings, which were underused in the movies.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Feb 4 2018, 10:33pm
Post #23 of 24
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Wasn't that how Aragorn was introduced in the Fellowship of the Ring, particularly the film?
I always follow my job through.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 5 2018, 4:21am
Post #24 of 24
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Wasn't that how Aragorn was introduced in the Fellowship of the Ring, particularly the film?
Close. 'Strider' was smoking a pipe and wearing a dark cloak (not black) with the hood obscuring his face.
Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits.
"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 5 2018, 4:30am)
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