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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Could Ar-Pharaz˘n defeat Sauron?

Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Dec 20 2017, 9:32pm

Post #1 of 10 (2049 views)
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Could Ar-Pharaz˘n defeat Sauron? Can't Post

If Sauron decided not get captured, and forced his army to defend Barad-dűr from the numenoreans, would he succeed? Could Sauron, his army defeat Ar-Pharazon military? And if the numenoreans destroyed his army, how could they destroy Sauron?


CuriousG
Half-elven


Dec 20 2017, 11:19pm

Post #2 of 10 (2032 views)
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I think Ar-Pharzaon would win [In reply to] Can't Post

And more easily than the Last Alliance of Elves and Men won. If you consider that in both situations, Sauron had the One Ring and huge armies. It took the Last Alliance years and many losses to defeat him, but it did. I think Numenor would have done it more quickly and with fewer losses. (And Sauron seemed to think so too.)


InTheChair
Lorien

Dec 21 2017, 9:39pm

Post #3 of 10 (1950 views)
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Depends on what you mean. [In reply to] Can't Post

Ar-Pharaz˘n could probably have taken Mordor, though if Sauron had withdrawn to the East it is questionable how inclined Ar-Pharaz˘n would have been to keep large forces nearby.

And of course even if Sauron had stayed and offered resistance, and had been physically defeated and killed (separation from the body) as he was by the Last Alliance, Ar-Pharaz˘n would have kept the ring.


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Dec 22 2017, 11:24pm

Post #4 of 10 (1910 views)
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Supernatural forces? [In reply to] Can't Post

Did Sauron had any supernatural forces during the time of Ar-Pharazon? I mean how did he managed to take on the high elves kingdom without any immortal beings? Was his convential forces too big and massive for the elves to handle?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 23 2017, 12:39am

Post #5 of 10 (1902 views)
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Sauron's Resources [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Did Sauron had any supernatural forces during the time of Ar-Pharazon? I mean how did he managed to take on the high elves kingdom without any immortal beings? Was his convential forces too big and massive for the elves to handle?


If your armies are large enough, you don't need much in the way of the supernatural. The Nine first appeared as the Nazgűl around SA 2250, well before the time of Ar-Pharaz˘n. Presumably they would have led Sauron's armies against the N˙menˇreans if he had not instead surrendered.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Dec 23 2017, 1:21am

Post #6 of 10 (1897 views)
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Outcome? [In reply to] Can't Post

Would the outcome be any different? If Sauron decides to use the ringwraiths together with his army to crush Ar-Pharazon militarily?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 23 2017, 4:01am

Post #7 of 10 (1883 views)
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Probably not. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Would the outcome be any different? If Sauron decides to use the ringwraiths together with his army to crush Ar-Pharazon militarily?


Sauron probably did not think so or he likely would not have humbled himself in surrender.


Quote
So great was the might and splendour of the N˙menoreans that Sauron's own servants deserted him; and Sauron humbled himself, doing homage, and craving pardon. Then Ar-Pharaz˘n in the folly of his pride carried him back as a prisoner to N˙menor. It was not long before he had bewitched the King and was master of his counsel; and soon he had turned the hearts of all the N˙menoreans, except the remnant of the Faithful, back towards the darkness.


What Sauron could not achieve through might, he managed through guile.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Dec 23 2017, 4:18am

Post #8 of 10 (1882 views)
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Must been a heck of a sight.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Numenorean army must be a sight to behold, perhaps even a godly sight that scared even demons and a great maiar as Sauron


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Dec 24 2017, 2:29pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 23 2017, 4:36am

Post #9 of 10 (1874 views)
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Sauron's Army [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I expect that most of the deserters would have been Orcs, Men and maybe Trolls.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Eruonen
Valinor


Dec 24 2017, 5:39pm

Post #10 of 10 (1766 views)
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Sauron's forces yes....Sauron himself? Possible as in the example of Isildur [In reply to] Can't Post

but I tend to think that was some "Middle-earth" luck at work. Not sure Ar-Pharazon would have been the recipient of such luck. Plus, Sauron saw another path to victory, corruption from within Numenor. He basically allowed himself to get captured.

 
 

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