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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
How about Inter-race marraige?
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Eruonen
Valinor


Dec 1 2017, 10:25pm

Post #26 of 32 (911 views)
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Melian the Maia was the wife of Elu Thingol, mother of Lúthien, and Queen of Doriath. [In reply to] Can't Post

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Melian


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 1 2017, 10:25pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 1 2017, 11:59pm

Post #27 of 32 (895 views)
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Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post

Melian has been brought up once or twice.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


MorgulBlade
The Shire


Dec 21 2017, 6:44pm

Post #28 of 32 (786 views)
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hobbits [In reply to] Can't Post

Weren't Hobbits supposed to be an offshoot of man somewhere down the line?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 21 2017, 7:56pm

Post #29 of 32 (783 views)
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Re: Hobbits [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Weren't Hobbits supposed to be an offshoot of man somewhere down the line?


Yes, though Tolkien didn't get into the specifics of how that worked. However, if there was room in the tree of mankind in Middle-earth for the Woses then I suppose that there was room for Hobbits. I am going to guess that Hobbits and Men could probably have intermarried (and at some point probably would have done so).

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 21 2017, 7:58pm)


MorgulBlade
The Shire


Dec 22 2017, 12:32am

Post #30 of 32 (771 views)
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re:hobbits [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Weren't Hobbits supposed to be an offshoot of man somewhere down the line?


Yes, though Tolkien didn't get into the specifics of how that worked. However, if there was room in the tree of mankind in Middle-earth for the Woses then I suppose that there was room for Hobbits. I am going to guess that Hobbits and Men could probably have intermarried (and at some point probably would have done so).


Makes sense to me. I I think probably Bree would have been a good place for any intermarriage to happen. (This was the only place we were shown in the novels/films that hobbits regularly interacted with men and didnt have to explain what they were)

Although Hobbits seemed to have split off of mankind long enough that they were their own race as the ages passed.


squire
Half-elven


Dec 22 2017, 1:36am

Post #31 of 32 (768 views)
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But Tolkien is very clear that intermarriage was not a feature of Bree's society. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Big Folk and the Little Folk (as they called one another) were on friendly terms, minding their own affairs in their own ways, but both rightly regarding themselves as necessary parts of the Bree-folk. Nowhere else in the world was this peculiar (but excellent) arrangement to be found. (LotR I.9)

I am the first to agree that, in our own real world of Earth, such an "arrangement" would include its share of intermarriages, "half-breeds", etc. But Tolkien's world of Middle-earth is not ours. As he put it, Middle-earth is Earth, not so much in a different historical epoch, as "at a different stage of imagination".

He "imagines" a different kind of humanity, divided into physical races of Elves, Men, Hobbits, Dwarves, Orcs, Trolls, Ents, etc. And in matters of sexuality and descent, just as infidelity and divorce are unheard of in Elven sexual relations (see his essay on it), so is mixing between the 'races' so rare as to be remarkable, that is, he mentions it whenever Elves and Men are joined in union. But he never mentions it with Hobbits and Men (only Hobbits and Elves, and then in pointed jest), even in Bree where as you say it would seem to be a most likely result of the social structure. And I think we have to go with that.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 22 2017, 4:01am

Post #32 of 32 (761 views)
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Bree Men and Hobbits [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But Tolkien is very clear that intermarriage was not a feature of Bree's society.


Not during the Third Age (that we know of); but maybe in later years the lines might have become more blurred. After all, we know that there were a number of Man/Elf unions that must have included some that were not well documented, resulting (for example) in the mixed lineage of Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth. Nonetheless, I don't think that the passage you cite absolutely precludes the possibility of interracial romance between Bree-lander Man and Hobbit however unlikely it may seem.

Tolkien even wrote of the strain of Orc possibly being found in the Men of today, though we can argue that he did not mean it to be taken seriously.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

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