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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
Lord of the Rings' TV Show Gets Mutli-Season Order At Amazon
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malickfan
Gondor


Nov 14 2017, 12:24pm

Post #151 of 183 (1125 views)
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I'm wondering if this is a sign that Christopher Tolkien has retired... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and handed on his duties to the next generation. Christopher Tolkien's expressed views in that Le Monde interview a few years back suggest he was completely against visual adaptations of the books (though as I understand it, the Tolkien Estate still owns the audio rights to the books, and were directly involved/assisting the writers of the 1981 BBC Radio LOTR) and he recently commented in Beren and Luthien that he expected that book to be last work as editor of his fathers writings (though that may be as much down to the decreasing amount of unpublished material as it is related to his age).

Younger members of the family have indicated they are or were more supportive of adaptions and the Peter Jackson films, perhaps after this long complicated lawsuit and all these years of hard work Christopher now feels it's an appropriate time to step aside and has given the next generation a bigger say in the future direction of Tolkien's legacy...








malickfan
Gondor


Nov 14 2017, 12:32pm

Post #152 of 183 (1123 views)
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Controversial opinion here...but I'm glad this TV series will likely distance itself from the Jackson films... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and more likely than not their creative crew and visual look. Weta are masters of their craft, and New Zealand is a beautiful country, but I'm really excited at the possibility of a completely new design crew, director (maybe even country) exploring Middle Earth (in fact that seems more exciting to me than the idea of a prequel series anyway), for me the Hobbit films were a crushing disappointment and a case of diminishing returns and rushed production, I'd rather a new team gets a shot at exploring Middle Earth rather than bringing back the old favourites merely out of loyalty/fear that it would upset fans.


Tolkien's writing has inspired artists and fans for decades, the Ralph Bakshi film may have be pretty terrible for the most part but it's no less valid than the Jackson films, and as this TV series seems set to be a prequel very loosely inspired by the books rather than directly adapting them, what better excuse to go in a completely different visual direction...

Maybe they could give GDT a call and see if he is still interested...








balbo biggins
Rohan


Nov 14 2017, 1:46pm

Post #153 of 183 (1091 views)
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Forced [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be forced because what.you have quoted is almost the entirety of Tolkien's writing in the matter. How did he meet gandalf? What names did he take? Some will have to sit down and makes these things up, and that is the point it doesn't become Tolkien anymore .


Lindele
Gondor

Nov 14 2017, 2:50pm

Post #154 of 183 (1055 views)
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I'm certainly intrigued [In reply to] Can't Post

at a new perspective.
However, IMO the design of the PJ films can not be improved upon. The level of passion, time and skill that went into designing the six movies, whatever you think about them, is completely unprecedented,. That level of detail and love ever going into another production is highly unlikely, probably impossible. So in that sense it is unquestionably going to fail if they completely start from scratch.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 14 2017, 2:51pm

Post #155 of 183 (1057 views)
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Royd Tolkien is very excited about the series. [In reply to] Can't Post

This hints at so leverage by the grand kids.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 14 2017, 3:21pm

Post #156 of 183 (1041 views)
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That's inevitable. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It would be forced because what.you have quoted is almost the entirety of Tolkien's writing in the matter. How did he meet gandalf? What names did he take? Some will have to sit down and makes these things up, and that is the point it doesn't become Tolkien anymore .


Any such show is going to have to do precisely that: invent entire characters and plots and specific settings out of such snippets as Tolkien left behind. It doesn't matter if it's about Aragorn or Balin in Moria or the last days of Arthedain or the Fall of Númenor. If that is your objection then I imagine that you have no plans of watching any series that is developed.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


balbo biggins
Rohan


Nov 14 2017, 3:54pm

Post #157 of 183 (1017 views)
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Invented storiee [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course I'll watch it, but even if it's the greatest TV show in the history of television, if someone is inventing stories based on a Tolkien character is it really a Tolkien story?

And we know what happens when people start trying to insert newly written Tolkien characters and events, we get below par work like the hobbit and shadow of mordor


(This post was edited by balbo biggins on Nov 14 2017, 3:56pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 14 2017, 4:15pm

Post #158 of 183 (1007 views)
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Aren't they all invented stories? [In reply to] Can't Post

Even if you are fictionalizing real events, you are inventing dialogue, presuming to know what was in people's minds and hearts, and perhaps even inventing whole characters (or at least creating composite characters).


In Reply To
And we know what happens when people start trying to insert newly written Tolkien characters and events, we get below par work like the hobbit and shadow of mordor


We know that this can happen. It isn't a given. And the Hobbit films have their shares of good writing as well as bad; they are far from uniformly godawful. Believe it or not, there are persons who can write as well or better than Tolkien could, and some of them even write for television and film. Tolkien, bless him, was not a novelist first or foremost.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Eruonen
Valinor


Nov 14 2017, 4:19pm

Post #159 of 183 (1003 views)
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Well, at least now there is something new to anticipate and discuss [In reply to] Can't Post

Just when we were in a long expected drought of anything new this comes along. All we can do is hope that it will be a very well thought out and produced series. Amazon knows they have to do it right.

We get to have those anticipatory feelings once again that we had with the original LOTR and then The Hobbit.

I still long for a Children of Hurin adaptation but there is room for well done invention grounded in the Appendices.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Nov 14 2017, 4:21pm)


Simon L. de Paiva
Bree


Nov 14 2017, 5:58pm

Post #160 of 183 (953 views)
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It's a huge relief for me as well... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that they're not redoing LOTR. PJ's legacy must never be touched. I just hope that they hire the right people for this series, so that it doesn't turn out to be a disaster, fingers crossed.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 14 2017, 6:33pm

Post #161 of 183 (927 views)
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Sorry to burst your bubble [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think it is very likely that eventually this series will cover the events of LOTR, even if it starts out only covering the events preceding the Long-expected Party. I think it is inevitable (unless the series is a total flop).

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


shaundobson
Rivendell


Nov 14 2017, 7:01pm

Post #162 of 183 (905 views)
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But [In reply to] Can't Post

Even if they do start from the end of the hobbit up until the start of FOTR that's still a good 60 or so years timeline to get on TV.

I think this would be enough for the first few seasons then they can evaluate where to go from there.


malickfan
Gondor


Nov 14 2017, 7:30pm

Post #163 of 183 (887 views)
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Why would a LOTR remake 'touch' PJ's legacy? [In reply to] Can't Post

He was the first director mad and brave enough to attempt a live action adaptation of LOTR and he should certainly be applauded for his success, but his films speak for themselves and stand apart as just one of several adaptations of the novel, just because they are so beloved and successful it doesn't mean they should hold dominion over screen adaptations of the book i.m.o. A remake or reboot of the trilogy wouldn't effect my enjoyment of (or problems with) the film trilogy, and as someone who prefers the books anyway I'd welcome the intrigue and discussion that a remake would bring, before it was Peter Jackson's legacy it was Ralph Bakshi's but it was always be JRR's first and foremost...

Middle-earth is such a vast and beloved literary universe other people deserve the chance to explore it on screen i.m..o, I disliked much of The Hobbit films but I don't begrudge others getting more enjoyment out of them and I certainly appreciate all the hard work that went into them...but after six films from one director I feel ready to get a new look at things...








Doriath
Rivendell


Nov 14 2017, 7:48pm

Post #164 of 183 (883 views)
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New take [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm in the camp of folks who are of a mind that this should be a new look, feel and flavor from what we had in the films. I really enjoyed PJ and WETA'S take on it for the most part but I really feel we need to see Middle Earth through a different lens this time. I loved the Bakshi film but when the live action films were in early stages I never thought those should be a carbon copy of that. It's like Tolkien inspired artwork. Calendars and the like. I don't just like one artist. There have been several artists over the years who have captured the essence of the written work very much to my liking. One might be favored for their take on the Shire and another I might prefer for how they have the characters look. I don't feel that wanting new direction, locations, crew, special effects or actors is a dis on PJ & crew. He even said he wanted someone else to direct the Hobbit so he could just enjoy watching it and not have to go through the pains of getting it made. The main thing I'm not keen on is writing anything for any production that is not of the original writings of Tolkien. Hopefully they won't feel the need to do this. I'm not, as I've previously stated, interested in fan fiction. If they want to write original material, great, just write an original story and call it something else. I guess we'll see!

please keep it Tolkien


Simon L. de Paiva
Bree


Nov 14 2017, 9:10pm

Post #165 of 183 (839 views)
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You make a good point. [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess we can agree it's all a matter of opinion, I certainly understand and respect yours, but this doesn't change the way I feel about it. I've already stated my view on the matter in this very same thread, a few pages back. I don't want to repeat myself, but what I said is basically this: LOTR for me doesn't fit in the category of an often adapted piece of literature, along the lines of "Jane Eyre" or "Pride and Prejudice". It fits in the category of a cinematic masterpiece, a milestone in the history of film, remaking it, IMO would be like remaking classics ( not only book adaptations but original screenplays as well) such as the original "Star Wars" trilogy, the first three "Indiana Jones" films, "The wizard of Oz' or more revered dramas such as "Gone with the Wind", '"The Godfather","Schindler's List", "Taxi Driver", "Goodfellas", "Forrest Gump" and many others.

Such films are timeless, and it's my opinion, that they should not be remade, their legacy should be left alone, That's what I meant when I said that PJ's legacy should never be touched. The only person who seemed to understand my point and agreed with me was Aragorn the Elfstone, I'm sure there are others. There's also the fact that as much as I love the books, I connect in a much stronger way with the films and scores, that may be a factor as well. I completely understand there are people who want to see new takes on what Tolkien created, I respect that, as for me, my position remains the same. I guess we can respectfully agree to disagree.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Nov 14 2017, 9:17pm

Post #166 of 183 (832 views)
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I don't believe it's inevitable at all. [In reply to] Can't Post

But then I also don't believe that the series will start completely fresh and disregard PJ's films, as many here do.

Of course, it's all guess work at this point. I hope we get more concrete information sooner rather than later.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Nov 14 2017, 9:20pm

Post #167 of 183 (827 views)
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Hmmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm all for it if they go the GOT's route...and by that I mean - Real set, orcs in costume, beautiful locations and most importantly - good actors and minimal cgi! In other words use LOTR's as your template NOT the Hobbit films.

This will either be fantastic or tragic - Both I will enjoy haha

Cool


Yva
Rivendell


Nov 14 2017, 9:51pm

Post #168 of 183 (807 views)
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Reference point [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm in the camp of folks who are of a mind that this should be a new look, feel and flavor from what we had in the films. I really enjoyed PJ and WETA'S take on it for the most part but I really feel we need to see Middle Earth through a different lens this time.


I have to admit that whether or not they stick to LOTR's style and flavour is much less important for me (I mean I wouldn't mind either way) than to what extent they manage to distance the series from the GoT look and feel. I'm not a massive GoT fan, although I do watch it due to its addictive nature, and I definitely do not want to feel like I'm watching another GoT just with Tolkien's characters. And I'm thinking it will be equally as important to them. They might want to reach GoT's level of success but I doubt they want to be dubbed "GoT with elves in it". But they possibly will be anyway.


Eldorion
Gondor


Nov 14 2017, 11:28pm

Post #169 of 183 (764 views)
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Looks like The Silmarillion was not on the table [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but I was glancing over the second Variety piece again trying to find something else and they've quietly edited it to add this statement:


Quote
The Amazon deal does not cover “The Silmarillion,” the third major work taking place in Tolkein’s Middle Earth and adjacent worlds, published after the author’s death.


http://variety.com/...s-amazon-1202613609/
Compare to the original >here<



There's a feeling I get, when I look to the West...



Eruonen
Valinor


Nov 14 2017, 11:37pm

Post #170 of 183 (756 views)
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I think it depends on what new look, feel and flavor end up being. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think you can radically change what is already accepted in the audience mind as Middle-earth via the films. Yes, there will be new costumes, scenery etc. but I don't think they will want to take a huge risk and present something that is jarringly different from prior experience. I don't think elves are suddenly going to look like the frog people of Rankin and Bass. Nor are the landscapes and buildings going to look that different.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Nov 14 2017, 11:39pm)


lurtz2010
Rohan

Nov 15 2017, 12:06am

Post #171 of 183 (731 views)
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Damn [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but I was glancing over the second Variety piece again trying to find something else and they've quietly edited it to add this statement:


Quote
The Amazon deal does not cover “The Silmarillion,” the third major work taking place in Tolkein’s Middle Earth and adjacent worlds, published after the author’s death.


http://variety.com/...s-amazon-1202613609/
Compare to the original >here<

I would've preferred a Sil adaption, there's so much potential and the series would be based on an actual book instead of other Middle Earth events referenced in LOTR.


(This post was edited by lurtz2010 on Nov 15 2017, 12:09am)


Silverlode
Forum Admin


Nov 15 2017, 12:15am

Post #172 of 183 (726 views)
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I would have been shocked if it did. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm already shocked enough that this is happening at all, hearing that the rights to the Sil had been sold would have really felt like the world was upside down. I do wonder if any of Unfinished Tales is in the mix, though, or if they're confined to the Appendices.

Silverlode

Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.




Silverlode
Forum Admin


Nov 15 2017, 12:18am

Post #173 of 183 (724 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

There will probably be only a very few things in the coming days that everyone feels they can agree on, but I think we can all give a hearty "Thank goodness!" to this. Laugh



Quote
I don't think elves are suddenly going to look like the frog people of Rankin and Bass.



Silverlode

Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.




Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Nov 15 2017, 12:24am

Post #174 of 183 (722 views)
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So then it will be largely original material "inspired" by LotR... [In reply to] Can't Post

...whether that's from the main text or the appendices.

Lots here won't be happy. But I'm all for original material. I don't see anything wrong with new writers lending their talents to create new stories/material in Middle-earth. Whether purists want to give it the label of "fan fiction" or not.

Just need confirmation now about their intentions to either honor PJ's films or not, and I can decide how fully on board with this I am.

"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen

(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Nov 15 2017, 12:25am)


Eldorion
Gondor


Nov 15 2017, 12:26am

Post #175 of 183 (715 views)
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If Amazon got the rights to UT I think it would've been in the press release [In reply to] Can't Post

That was also my thought process about The Silmarillion, though a friend on another forum tried to convince me otherwise. Tongue But Amazon's statement doesn't even mention The Hobbit, so I think it's a fairly safe bet that they have the rights to LOTR and only LOTR (for now, anyway).

http://www.businesswire.com/...e/20171113006083/en/



There's a feeling I get, when I look to the West...


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