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It's just a trivialness

Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 19 2017, 2:29am

Post #1 of 21 (2394 views)
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It's just a trivialness Can't Post

 Might be fun to see how many you know without looking ...
Text please. Might be a no-peekee prize . . . (or not Cool Wink)

1. Name four families of Hobbits that lived on Bagshot Row.
2. Translate Elen Sila lumenn omentilmo. into Westron.
3. Name five people who rode from the Battle of Helm's Deep to the parley at Orthanc.
4. What relation was Thrain II to Thorin Oakenshield?
5. Name the two roads that make-up the meeting of ways at Bree.

6. What did Gorhendad Oldbuck change his name to in 740 S.R.?
7. Who originally held the Three Elven Rings?
8. What portion of the treasure was given to Bard by Dain?
9. What lake did the Dwaves call "Kheled-zaram"?
10. Give two 'uncivil' names that Bill Ferney called Aragorn.

11. In what forest was the Stonewain Valley?
12. Who said: "He stands not alone!" (while fitting arrow to bow-string)?
13. Who built the Towers of the Teeth?
14. Who was the second longest living Hobbit in recorded history?
15. Who threatened to stand Pippin on his head?

16. What was unusual about the Tower Hills palantir (compared to the others)?
17. Translate Telcontar into Westron.
18. Who was the Gatekeeper at the West Gate of Bree when the four Hobbits arrived?
19. Give seven more names for Tharkûn.
20. Give the names for the two Towers of the Teeth.

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




noWizardme
Valinor


Oct 19 2017, 8:32am

Post #2 of 21 (2327 views)
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not answering the question but, Elen Sila lumenn omentilmo... [In reply to] Can't Post

Elen Sila lumenn omentilmo is an anagram of

Lemon Linoleum Lineaments

which is kinds nice. Also

Elemental Elm, Muslin Onion

(an elvish martial-arts movie) and...

"Lime-lemon emollients, a nun."

which sounds dubious to me...

and plenty more, but that's more than plenty enough...

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


Eledhwen
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 19 2017, 8:39am

Post #3 of 21 (2325 views)
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Oh why not! [In reply to] Can't Post

1) Baggins, Gamgee, and I have no idea ...
2) A star shines on the light of our meeting
3) Gandalf, Eomer, Aragorn, Théoden, Legolas
4) Grandfather
5) East Road, Buckland Road
6) Can't remember
7) Elrond, Galadriel, Círdan
8) One-tenth
9) Mirror of Moria (sure that's wrong)
10) Longshanks, Strider
11) Mirkwood
12) Legolas
13) Númenoreans
14) Old Took
15) Beregond's son, whose name escapes me ...
16) It only looked one way
17) Strider
18) Bill Ferny
19) Seven!!?? Saruman, Sharky ... give up ...
20) No idea. Might be time for a re-read!

Storm clouds


Na Vedui
Rohan


Oct 19 2017, 1:40pm

Post #4 of 21 (2309 views)
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Here goes .... [In reply to] Can't Post

Have not peeked!
1. Gamgee - not sure who else unless you count the Bag End crowd, which includes Baggins, and Rosie (nee Cotton) and Belladonna (nee Took) and the Sackville-Bagginses.
2. A star shines upon our meeting?
3. Gandalf, Théoden, Gimli, Legolas, Aragorn,
4. father
5. Great East Road & Greenway
6. Brandybuck
7. Cirdan, Galadriel and (I think) Gil-galad but I may be wrong about that one
8.
9. Mirrormere
10. Stick-at-Nought Strider; did he call him Longshanks too?
11. Forgotten? (or have I Forgotten?)
12. Legolas
13. Gondor- not sure when
14. Gerontius the Old Took
15.
16. It looked West to Elvenhome, it wasn't part of the communications network with the others
17. Strider
18. Harry Goatleaf
19. Gandalf, Mithrandir, Olorin, Lathspell, Stormcrow, the Grey Pilgrim, the Grey Wizard
20. Narchoth and Carchoth?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 19 2017, 2:30pm

Post #5 of 21 (2303 views)
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From memory? [In reply to] Can't Post

One thing: I can't translate anything into Westron (and I doubt anyone else here can either). The closest I can come is English.

1. Bagginses. I can't think of any others by name unless the Gamgeess were one.
2. Nothing. The correct phrase is Elen síla lumenn omentielvo or "A star shines on the hour of our meeting."
3. Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli and King Theoden.
4. Thrain II is Thorin's father.
5. At Bree the Great East-West Road intersects with the Old North-South Road (also called the Greenway).

6 Brandybuck
7. Cirdan, Celembrimbor, Galadriel?
8. One fourteenth portion.
9. Mirrormere.
10. 'Longshanks' and ?
11. The Druadan Forest?
12. Legolas (I think).
13. Sauron?
14. The Old Took (surpassed by Bilbo).
15. Gandalf.

16. The palantir in the Tower Hills only looked back to the Undying Lands.
17. Aragorn took the name Telcontar as Quenya for 'Strider'!
18. Ted Sandyman?
19. Mithrandir, Gandalf the Grey, Olorin, Stormcrow, Incanus, Grey Wanderer, Grey Pilgrim.
20. ...?

"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."


Elthir
Grey Havens

Oct 19 2017, 5:22pm

Post #6 of 21 (2286 views)
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also it's lumenna although the end vowel can be lifted... [In reply to] Can't Post

... in this position in this example, represented like this: lumenn' omentielvo

"Nothing. The correct phrase is Elen síla lumenn omentielvo"

True. BraceGirdle probably has one of those "typo editions" I expect.

First Edition omentielmo so rendered by Tolkien

Second Edition omentielvo so rendered by Tolkien

Some Second editions "omentilmo"...

... tryin to correct Tolkien's omentielvo after someone informed the publishes that they thought it was a misspelling for omentielmo.

Smile


Elthir
Grey Havens

Oct 19 2017, 5:30pm

Post #7 of 21 (2287 views)
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Westron [In reply to] Can't Post

I can translate a few words, for example.

kuduk "hobbit" (hobbit dialect) banakil "halfling"

I let the pedantry out Tongue


Elthir
Grey Havens

Oct 19 2017, 6:25pm

Post #8 of 21 (2277 views)
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and typos hapen [In reply to] Can't Post

"... someone informed the publishes

Crazy


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 19 2017, 7:47pm

Post #9 of 21 (2272 views)
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You are "A Modern Wiz" stuck in the past :) A mind is a terrible thing to waste! [In reply to] Can't Post

Love your anagram site though. ShockedShocked

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 19 2017, 8:29pm

Post #10 of 21 (2268 views)
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To everyone ... thanks for playing [In reply to] Can't Post

Righto you are! Otaku 1, BG 0. Blush But I'm sure everyone gets the idea. English it is.


In Reply To
One thing: I can't translate anything into Westron (and I doubt anyone else here can either). The closest I can come is English.


‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 19 2017, 8:35pm

Post #11 of 21 (2262 views)
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Yes sir-ee. I thank-ee [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
BraceGirdle probably has one of those "typo editions" I expect.


Old, old (beat up pb).

But I reckon it translates into Westron (er . . . English, that is) the same?

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




(This post was edited by Bracegirdle on Oct 19 2017, 8:37pm)


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 21 2017, 2:44pm

Post #12 of 21 (2164 views)
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Answers below - thanks for playing... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 21 2017, 2:45pm

Post #13 of 21 (2163 views)
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Answers below - thanks for playing... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 21 2017, 2:53pm

Post #14 of 21 (2168 views)
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The (my) answers . . . [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Name four families of Hobbits that lived on Bagshot Row.
Gamgees (#3), Twofoots (#2 or #4), Bagginses, Sackville-Bagginses.

2. Translate Elen Sila lumenn omentilmo. into Westron.
A star shines on the hour of our meeting.

3. Name five people who rode from the Battle of Helm's Deep to the parley at Orthanc.
Gandalf, Theoden, Legolas, Gimli, Eomer, Aragorn

4. What relation was Thrain II to Thorin Oakenshield?
His Father

5. Name the two roads that make-up the meeting of ways at Bree.
The Great East Road (East West Road) & The Greenway (The Old South Road)

6. What did Gorhendad Oldbuck change his name to in 740 S.R.?
Brandybuck

7. Who originally held the Three Elven Rings?
Gil-galad, Galadriel, & Cirdan

8. What portion of the treasure was given to Bard by Dain?
1/14th

9. What lake did the Dwaves call "Kheled-zaram"?
The Mirrormere

10. Give two 'uncivil' names that Bill Ferney called Aragorn.
Longshanks & Stick-at-Nought Strider

11. In what forest was the Stonewain Valley?
The Druadan Forest

12. Who said: "He stands not alone!" (while fitting arrow to bow-string)?
Legolas (to Eomer & his Eored)

13. Who built the Towers of the Teeth?
The Gondorians (after Sauron's 1st fall)

14. Who was the second longest living Hobbit in recorded history?
Gerontius (The Old Took), lived to 130. (Bilbo took ship at 131.)

15. Who threatened to stand Pippin on his head?
Bergil

16. What was unusual about the Tower Hills palantir (compared to the others)?
It looked only west toward Eldamar and Valinor.

17. Translate Telcontar into Westron.
Strider

18. Who was the Gatekeeper at the West Gate of Bree when the four Hobbits arrived?
Harry Goatleaf

19. Give seven more names for Tharkûn.
Gandalf, Olorin, Mithrandir, Incanus, The White Rider,The Grey Pilgrim, Gandalf Stormcrow, Lathspell (and so on & on)

20. Give the names for the two Towers of the Teeth.
Narchost & Carchost

Comments invited? Corrections? Anyone?

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




sador
Half-elven


Oct 22 2017, 11:00am

Post #15 of 21 (2123 views)
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I see you've already posted the answers below. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nevertheless, I will try to answer without peeping.


1. Name four families of Hobbits that lived on Bagshot Row.
Baggins, Gamgee, Sackville-Baggins. I guess you meant Gardener as the fourth, assuming that Frodo Gardener kept that as a family name, and inherited Bag End from his father? Or are you assuming that Widow Rumble lived on Bagshot Row, too?


2. Translate Elen Sila lumenn omentilmo. into Westron.
Obviously, I cannot.
But in English it should be "a star shines on the hour of our meeting".
(By the way - the Hebrew translation, which I first read, has "shone", and for some reason this is stuck in my head. But I'm pretty sure the English has "shines")


3. Name five people who rode from the Battle of Helm's Deep to the parley at Orthanc.
Théoden, Eomer, Aragorn.
If you mean "people" as more inclusive than "Men" - also Gandalf and Legolas.
Why five and not six? Do you consider Gimli as hitch-hiking rather than riding?


4. What relation was Thrain II to Thorin Oakenshield?
According to the drafts - father, then grandfather, and finally father again.


5. Name the two roads that make-up the meeting of ways at Bree.
The North-South Road and the East-West Road.
The first led from Fornost and Annuminas (I think) to Tharbad Dunland, and the second from the Havens and the Shire to Rivendell.
But I do not recall their actual names.

6. What did Gorhendad Oldbuck change his name to in 740 S.R.?
Brandybuck.


7. Who originally held the Three Elven Rings?
According to the account in Unfinished Tales, Gil-galad and Galadriel. It is safe to assume (but as far as I remember, not definite) that Cirdan received Narya from the very beginning.
But still, I am pretty sure that Celebrimbor had intended to keep Narya for himself, had he not found out he was betrayed.


8. What portion of the treasure was given to Bard by Dain?
One fourteenth, as was Bilbo's intended share according to the contract.


9. What lake did the Dwaves call "Kheled-zaram"?
In English it was named "Mirrormere".


10. Give two 'uncivil' names that Bill Ferney called Aragorn.
One was "Longshanks". I guess Ferney was a Braveheart fan (I'm not).
He also called him "Strider" as a term of abuse. (With another before it. "No good Strider"? I do not remember.

11. In what forest was the Stonewain Valley?
In Anorien, leading to Amon Din. I forget the name.


12. Who said: "He stands not alone!" (while fitting arrow to bow-string)?
Legolas, of course.
Challanging Eomer, in defense of Gimli.


13. Who built the Towers of the Teeth?
The Men of Gondor.


14. Who was the second longest living Hobbit in recorded history?
Gerontius Took, aka the Old Took.
Was passed only by his grandson.


15. Who threatened to stand Pippin on his head?
Bergil.
(I'm sure movie-Gandalf did, too, but Jackson cut this particular exchange from the published versions.)

16. What was unusual about the Tower Hills palantir (compared to the others)?
It looked to the West.


17. Translate Telcontar into Westron.
Again, into English - Strider.


18. Who was the Gatekeeper at the West Gate of Bree when the four Hobbits arrived?
Dirty Harry Goatleaf.
(Being a gentleman, Tolkien left out the "dirty" bit)


19. Give seven more names for Tharkûn.
Gandalf, Mithrandir, Incanus, Olorin, the Grey Messnger, the Grey Pilgrim, Old Fool (by MoS).

20. Give the names for the two Towers of the Teeth.
Narchost and Charchost.





Thank you, Bracegirdle! That was fun.


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 22 2017, 5:18pm

Post #16 of 21 (2104 views)
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Hi ya, Sador [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure you have peeked by now . . . but anyway you bring up a couple of thoughts . .

1. Name four families of Hobbits that lived on Bagshot Row.
Baggins, Gamgee, Sackville-Baggins. I guess you meant Gardener as the fourth, assuming that Frodo Gardener kept that as a family name, and inherited Bag End from his father? Or are you assuming that Widow Rumble lived on Bagshot Row, too?

The Twofoots were the fourth (that we know of). Yes, Widow Rumble would be an assumption, so not counted even if somewhat logical.
Frodo Gardener lived on "New Row", not Bagshot Row -- (tricksy)

2. Covered above. Good catch though (Westron Frown, English Smile

3. Name five people who rode from the Battle of Helm's Deep to the parley at Orthanc.
Théoden, Eomer, Aragorn.
If you mean "people" as more inclusive than "Men" - also Gandalf and Legolas.
Why five and not six? Do you consider Gimli as hitch-hiking rather than riding?

Yes there were six that we know of. I asked for but five because "you'all deserve a break today" Wink. Even though Legolas and Gimli rode double on Arod, I'd consider them both "riders".

7. Who originally held the Three Elven Rings?
According to the account in Unfinished Tales, Gil-galad and Galadriel. It is safe to assume (but as far as I remember, not definite) that Cirdan received Narya from the very beginning.
But still, I am pretty sure that Celebrimbor had intended to keep Narya for himself, had he not found out he was betrayed.

Good point. It does seem quite logical that Celebrimbor might intend to keep 'A' Ring for himself. Or, the way I put the question, could we go so far as to say that he would be the original holder of all three Rings? (If only in the capasity of temporary proprietor.)

Thanks for your singular but good logical thoughts Smile.
One must be cautious when asking a question for he may get more than he bargained for..... Blush

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




sador
Half-elven


Oct 22 2017, 5:34pm

Post #17 of 21 (2101 views)
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So I looked in the book, [In reply to] Can't Post

and Daddy Twofoot was indeed the Gaffer's next door neighbour. I do not recall ever noticing this detail!

And forgetting the Greenway, and Druadan forest - I must be getting rusty...

Thank you again; that was fun!


FarFromHome
Valinor


Oct 22 2017, 8:07pm

Post #18 of 21 (2095 views)
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I think you could quibble... [In reply to] Can't Post

... about whether Bag End is on Bagshot Row. The book says that “[The Gamgees] lived on the Hill itself, in Number 3 Bagshot Row just below Bag End.” I've always taken that to mean that Bagshot Row was a little lower down the Hill, with Bag End at the top, by itself. I've always imagined Bag End like the "big house" in an old-fashioned English village, in its own grounds with just its name as its address, with a row of cottages nearby for tenants.

I seem to recall reading somewhere that there's a little joke in the name "Bagshot Row", because it was built up using the earth that was "shot" out of the Hill to excavate Bag End. But maybe I just made that up, I'm not sure!

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 22 2017, 10:59pm

Post #19 of 21 (2088 views)
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There has been some discussion about this in the past [In reply to] Can't Post

and the consensus seems to be yes...


In Reply To
... about whether Bag End is on Bagshot Row. The book says that “[The Gamgees] lived on the Hill itself, in Number 3 Bagshot Row just below Bag End.” I've always taken that to mean that Bagshot Row was a little lower down the Hill, with Bag End at the top, by itself. I've always imagined Bag End like the "big house" in an old-fashioned English village, in its own grounds with just its name as its address, with a row of cottages nearby for tenants.


I agree with you that Bag End was just above Bagshot Row. ie it's approach/entryway for deliveries, mail, etc. would be on Bagshot Row. I've always assumed its formal address be, "Name, Bag End, Bagshot Row, Hobbiton, The Shire". Whereas the Gamgees would be, "Name, #3 Bagshot Row, Hobbition, The Shire".

Here's a (partial) drawing by Tolkien himself


The red dot is mine and I assume the indication just below it is Bag End just above Bagshot Row.

Thanks FFHome Smile. Always fun to speculate. Crazy

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor




grammaboodawg
Immortal


Oct 23 2017, 1:08pm

Post #20 of 21 (2072 views)
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Bwahaha! Memory? What's that!?! ;) [In reply to] Can't Post

Mine is nasty-bad now... but here's my shot :D

1. Gamgee; Baggins; Hornblower; Proudfoot

2. A star shines on the hour of our meeting

3. Gandalf, Aragorn, Legolas, Gimli, King Théoden

4. His father

5. Greenway and East Road

6. Hobbit formally known as Oldbuck

7. Cirdan, Gil-galad, Galadriel

8. 14th?

9. Mirrormere

10. Longshanks and stick at nought

11. The forest that had a valley in it ;)

12. Legolas in defence of Gimli

13. Numenoreans?

14. The Old Took?

15. Ruffian at the gate

16. Far on the Western lands?

17. Elessar

18. Harry

19. Gandalf, Mithrandir, Gandalf the Grey, Gandalf the White, Grey Pilgrim, Olorin, Stormcrow

20. Minas Morgul and Barad-dur




sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Bracegirdle
Valinor


Oct 23 2017, 4:04pm

Post #21 of 21 (2063 views)
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Aw, now gramma. Your memory is still well intact [In reply to] Can't Post

How about 14 1/2 out of 20 (or thereabouts Wink). That's better than 12,759 registered users (or thereabouts Wink).

So you are in the 99.9999 percentile of the "I Know That Club". Smile Smile

THANKS FOR PLAYING! Smile

‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'

Gandalf to Denethor



 
 

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