|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
noWizardme
Half-elven
Oct 13 2017, 2:35pm
Post #1 of 9
(4212 views)
Shortcut
|
|
What does the Ring say?
|
Can't Post
|
|
Fellowship of the Ring. Gandalf and Frodo have just thrown the Ring into the fire, read the inscription, and now the Ring is on the Bag End kitchen table. Frodo says 'But he was destroyed - Sauron was destroyed!', Then the Ring seems to say something, and both Gandalf and Frodo look at it.
I've never quite been able to work out what it says: my best guess is 'Isildur' (which would make a certain kind of sense). But does anyone know better?
~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
|
|
|
squire
Half-elven
Oct 13 2017, 6:22pm
Post #2 of 9
(4176 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Maybe nothing we are supposed to understand?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I looked at IMDB's representation of the script, which gives this direction:
[Gandalf:] The ring has awoken. It has heard its master's call.
AT THAT MOMENT: A FLEETING, LOW WHISPER of BLACK SPEECH emanates from the Ring. Frodo looks at Gandalf, each knowing the other has heard it.
If this is correct, I would assume the Black Speech fragment was some appropriate word or two from the Ring Spell ("Ash nazg", etc.) which is the most prominent example of the Black Speech given in the entire book.
Since the essence of the scene is kind "Did you hear that?" "Hear what?", it would seem to be important that the audience not be able to make sense of it. So "Isildur" or anything else we could recognize would be a little counterproductive, dramatically speaking.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
 = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
|
|
|
noWizardme
Half-elven
Oct 13 2017, 7:57pm
Post #3 of 9
(4161 views)
Shortcut
|
So some actor had to go into the recording booth and do “words nobody can catch”. 
But certainly, it works just fine if the audience isn’t sure what they heard.
~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
|
|
|
squire
Half-elven
Oct 13 2017, 9:43pm
Post #4 of 9
(4154 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Hmmm... what could the film's writers have meant by "the Black Speech"?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Tolkien only gave us four lines, being the part of the Ring-spell that fit onto the Ring and glowed in fire-like writing when the Ring is heated in Frodo's fire. However, it seems the film's language guy, David Salo, has produced the full spell in the Black Speech, or 'neo-Black Speech' as he might put it:
Shre nazg golugranu kilmi-nudu
Ombi kuzddurbagu gundum-ishi
Nugu gurunkilu bard guruthu
Ash Burz-Durbagu burzum-ishi
Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu
Ash nazg durbatuluk
Ash nazg gimbatul
Ash nazg thrakatuluk
Agh burzum-ishi krimpatul
Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu
Now, Tolkien's or Carl Hostetter's opinion of Salo's work be damned, when I found this, I rushed back to the scene we've been talking about, and listened to that little snip of speech with these earlier lines in front of me. This is the film-verse, after all. But, alas, I still can't match whatever "some actor in the recording booth" said to any of the words above! I can't say it sounds like "Isildur", either, though. I hear "...a-RE-dol..." or something like that.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
|
|
|
noWizardme
Half-elven
Oct 14 2017, 7:45am
Post #5 of 9
(4105 views)
Shortcut
|
|
So perhaps they just got the actor to make “sound effects”
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I’m now thinking that an actor could have been recorded saying scripted words, or the sound mixers could have taken some recordings of syllables and made it sound good, without ending up with anything that had a meaning.
There’s a sense in which it’s creepier if we don’t know what the Ring said!
~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
|
|
|
Meneldor
Valinor
Oct 14 2017, 11:27pm
Post #6 of 9
(4050 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Maybe we should as the fox what the ring says.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"What does the fox say?"
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
|
|
|
noWizardme
Half-elven
Oct 15 2017, 11:08am
Post #7 of 9
(4001 views)
Shortcut
|
Maybe it make more sense played backwards...? :)
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Some of us are probably old enough to remember a controversy about whether popular songs such as Stairway to Heaven contained secret messages if played backwards.
On a straw poll, at least, I found that once people knew what the words in Stairway were supposed to be, then they could hear them, kinda. But not before someone had suggested it. Maybe me hearing 'Isildur' is a similar psychological phenomenon of trying too hard to fit meaning to just sounds.
BTW - if anyone wants a go at the Stairway to heaven thing, here is the relevant clip of the song played backwards: https://en.wikipedia.org/...File:STH_reverse.ogg
...and this section of the Wikipedia article describes the controversy and tells you what the 'secret message' is supposed to be about. https://en.wikipedia.org/...laims_of_backmasking
~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
|
|
|
Darkstone
Immortal
Oct 17 2017, 1:36pm
Post #8 of 9
(3849 views)
Shortcut
|
The fox says "Gering-ding-ding-ding-dingeringeding"!
This means something!
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
|
|
|
|
|
