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TIME - October 13
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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Oct 24 2017, 7:28am

Post #26 of 34 (2233 views)
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TIME - October 24 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

October 24, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Surviving Smaug attack, but now locked inside.
(determined from text)
..."[Bilbo and] the dwarves sat in darkness, and utter silence fell about them. Little they ate and little they spoke. They could not count the passing of time… …they scarcely dared to move, for the whisper of their voices echoed and rustled in the tunnel. If they dozed, they woke still to darkness and to silence going on unbroken.”

2. The people of Esgaroth struggle to find shelter and food.
(determined from text)
..."Bard took the lead, and ordered things as he wished, though always in the Master's name, and he had a hard task to govern the people and direct the preparations for their protection and housing. Probably most of them would have perished in the winter that now hurried after autumn, if help had not been to hand... ...help came swiftly; for Bard at once had speedy messengers sent up the river to the Forest to ask the aid of the King of the Elves of the Wood... ...these messengers had found a host already on the move..."

3. The Elves learn of Smaug's fall.
(determined from text)
..."The Elvenking... ...received news from his own messengers and from the birds that loved his folk..."


October 24, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo recovers and wakes.
(from the appendices)
..."Frodo woke and found himself lying in bed. At first he thought that he had slept late, after a long unpleasant dream that still hovered on the edge of memory... '...Where am I, and what is the time?' he said aloud to the ceiling.
...'In the house of Elrond, and it is ten o'clock in the morning,' said a voice. 'It is the morning of October the twenty-fourth, if you want to know.'
...'Gandalf!' cried Frodo, sitting up. There was the old wizard, sitting in a chair by the open window.
...'Yes,' he said, 'I am here. And you are lucky to be here, too, after all the absurd things you have done since you left home...'
...'...Where is Sam?' Frodo asked at length. 'And are the others all right?'
...'Yes, they are all safe and sound,' answered Gandalf. Sam was here until I sent him off to get some rest, about half an hour ago.'
...'What happened at the Ford? ...It all seemed so dim, somehow; and it still does.'
...'Yes, it would. You were beginning to fade,' answered Gandalf. 'The wound was overcoming you at last. A few more hours and you would have been beyond our aid. But you have some strength in you, my dear hobbit! As you showed in the Barrow. That was touch and go: perhaps the most dangerous moment of all. I wish you could have held out at Weathertop.'
...'We should never have done it without Strider,' said Frodo. 'But we needed you. I did not know what to do without you.'
...'I was delayed... ...and that nearly proved our ruin. And yet I am not sure: it may have been better so.'
...'I wish you would tell me what happened!'
...'All in good time! You are not supposed to talk or worry about anything today, by Elrond's orders.'
...'But talking would stop me thinking and wondering, which are quite as tiring,' said Frodo. 'I am wide awake now, and I remember so many things that want explaining. Why were you delayed...?'
...'...You will hear all you wish to know,' said Gandalf. 'We shall have council, as soon as you are well enough... ...I will only say that I was held captive.'
...'You?' cried Frodo.
...'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming. The Morgul-lord and his Black Riders have come forth. War in preparing!'
...'Then you knew of the Riders already—before I met them?'
...'Yes, I knew of them. Indeed I spoke of them once to you; for the Black Riders are the Ringwraiths, the Nine Servants of the Lord of the Rings. But I did not know that they had arisen again or I should have fled with you at once. I heard news of them only after I left you in June... ...For the moment we have been saved from disaster, by Aragorn.'
...'Yes,' said Frodo, 'it was Strider that saved us. Yet I was afraid of him at first. Sam never quite trusted him, I think, not at any rate until we met Glorfindel.'
...Gandalf smiled. 'I have heard all about Sam... ...He has no more doubts now.'
...'I am glad,' said Frodo. 'For I have become very fond of Strider. Well, fond is not the right word. I mean that he is dear to me; though he is strange, and grim at times.... ...he reminds me often of you. I didn't know that any of the Big People were like that. I thought, well, that they were just big, and rather stupid: kind and stupid like Butterbur; or stupid and wicked like Bill Ferny. But then we don't know much about Men in the Shire...'
...'...You don't know much even about them, if you think old Barliman is stupid,' said Gandalf. 'He is wise enough on his own ground. He thinks less than he talks, and slower; yet he can see through a brick wall in time... ...But there are few left in Middle-earth like Aragorn son of Arathorn. The race of the Kings from over the Sea is nearly at an end. It may be that this War of the Ring will be their last adventure.'
...'Do you really mean that Strider is one of the people of the old Kings?' said Frodo in wonder. 'I thought they had all vanished long ago. I thought he was only a Ranger.'
...'Only a Ranger!' cried Gandalf. 'My dear Frodo, that is just what the Rangers are: the last remnant in the North of the great people, the Men of the West. They have helped me before; and I shall need their help in the days to come; for we have reached Rivendell, but the Ring is not yet at rest….'

...…As the evening drew on, Frodo woke up again, and he found that he no longer felt in need of rest or sleep, but had a mind for food and drink, and probably for singing and story-telling afterwards. He... ...discovered that his arm was already nearly as useful again as it had ever been. He found laid ready clean garments of green cloth... ...Looking in a mirror he was startled to see a much thinner reflection of himself than he remembered: it looked remarkably like the young nephew of Bilbo who used to go tramping with his uncle in the Shire; but the eyes looked out at him thoughtfully.
...'Yes, you have seen a thing or two since you last peeped out of a looking-glass,' he said to his reflection. 'But now for a merry meeting!' He stretched out his arms and whistled a tune.
At that moment there was a knock on the door, and Sam came in. He ran to Frodo and took the left hand, awkwardly and shyly. He stroked it gently and then he blushed and turned hastily away.
...'Hullo, Sam!' said Frodo.
...'It's warm! ...Meaning your hand, Mr. Frodo. It has felt so cold through the long nights. But glory and trumpets!' he cried, turning round again with shining eyes and dancing on the floor. 'It's fine to see you up and yourself again, sir! Gandalf asked me to come and see if you were ready to come down, and I thought he was joking.'
...'I am ready... ...Let's go and look for the rest of the party!'

..."'...Hurray!' cried Pippin, springing up. 'Here is our noble cousin! Make way for Frodo, Lord of the Ring!'
...'Hush!' said Gandalf from the shadows at the back of the porch. 'Evil things do not come into this valley; but all the same we should not name them. The Lord of the Ring is not Frodo, but the master of the Dark Tower of Mordor whose power is again stretching out over the world! We are sitting in a fortress. Outside it is getting dark.'
...'Gandalf has been saying many cheerful things like that,' said Pippin. 'He thinks I need keeping in order...'"

2. Boromir arrives in Rivendell at night.
(from the appendices)
..."...a tall man with a fair and noble face, dark-haired and grey-eyed, proud and stern of glance. He was cloaked and booted as if for a journey on horseback; and indeed though his garments were rich, and his cloak was lined with fur, they were stained with long travel. He had a collar of silver in which a single white stone was set; his locks were shorn about his shoulders. On a baldric he wore a great horn tipped with silver...."


October 24, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. Gandalf and the hobbits make their way to Bree after passing Weathertop.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Frodo could tell that Sam was growing impatient with the pace the Company was taking. Sam would occasionally stand in his stirrups and look over their heads and up the road, drop back into the saddle and suck on his teeth. Now that Sam recognized where they were, Frodo knew his eagerness to get back to the Shire was growing by the hour... now by the minute. Frodo smiled at his friend each time Sam looked over at him, but it was given with a pitying, understanding nod. "Soon, Sam. We'll be there soon." Yet Frodo also noticed Sam never left his side to move to the front of the riders. This too made him smile as he thought, "The best hobbit in the Shire."




sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Murlo
Rivendell


Oct 24 2017, 2:40pm

Post #27 of 34 (2208 views)
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Another explanation for the low moon on Durin's Day [In reply to] Can't Post

The blog post on Durin's Day at Lalaith's Middle-earth Science Pages appears to have an explanation for why the moon appeared so low on Durin's Day in The Hobbit, which is also estimated on 22 'October' 2941 T.A. in that post, but 2 days after an 'October' 20th new moon.

If you haven't seen this blog before, they have been making posts throughout the year tracking the progress of The Hobbit, because they also think that the moon phases this year are a good match for the moon phases in the story (if you align the Shire Calendar with ours).


(This post was edited by Murlo on Oct 24 2017, 2:48pm)


Murlo
Rivendell


Oct 24 2017, 2:44pm

Post #28 of 34 (2207 views)
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Durin's Day, in my area, was on the 22nd this year [In reply to] Can't Post

By the way, I could find the crescent moon fairly easily in the afternoon of the 22nd, and just before sunset as well.

So I guess that means, at least in my local area, Durin's Day occurred on Sunday, 22 October 2017 by "Gregorian Reckoning" Wink


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 24 2017, 4:38pm

Post #29 of 34 (2196 views)
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Durin's Day in Jackson's films [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
By the way, I could find the crescent moon fairly easily in the afternoon of the 22nd, and just before sunset as well.

So I guess that means, at least in my local area, Durin's Day occurred on Sunday, 22 October 2017 by "Gregorian Reckoning" Wink


If we go by the phases of the moon, we can guess the date of Durin's Day in The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug to within a day or two.

1) In The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey, the moon on 1 Lithe, Midsummer's Eve, is a waxing crescent moon, probably four or five days after the new moon. On a modern calendar, we could place this on June 30 to account for the differences in the lengths of the months. For our purposes here we can ignore when the summer solstice falls on the Gregorian calendar.

2) Durin's Day falls on another waxing crescent moon, this time seemingly six days after the new moon.

3) Gandalf's explanation in An Unexpected Journey is a little muddled where the book is concerned. He states: "it is the start of the Dwarves' new year, when the last moon of autumn and the first sun of winter appear in the sky together." In the book, the date fell on the first day following the last new moon of autumn and, the the actual beginning of winter might still be days or weeks away.

4) As Durin's Day represented the beginning of the Dwarves' new year and also the start of winter in the the films, we can guess that it should have been the end of October or the beginning of November. This would place the date in The Desolation of Smaug at October 27 or 28.

The whole thing is a bit sloppy as presented on screen (especially when Jackson later depicts Smaug attacking Lake-town under a full moon!), but blame Peter Jackson for that.

"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 24 2017, 4:47pm)


Murlo
Rivendell


Oct 25 2017, 5:26am

Post #30 of 34 (2159 views)
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Nice summary [In reply to] Can't Post

I always appreciated that they got the moons right for midsummer's eve and Durin's Day in the movies.


Quote
when the last moon of autumn and the first sun of winter appear in the sky together



Quote
The whole thing is a bit sloppy as presented on screen (especially when Jackson later depicts Smaug attacking Lake-town under a full moon!), but blame Peter Jackson for that.


Laugh


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 25 2017, 2:58pm

Post #31 of 34 (2143 views)
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That is...surprising. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I always appreciated that they got the moons right for midsummer's eve and Durin's Day in the movies.


Well, Jackson got Midsummer's Eve right (though how do we know that it should have been a waxing moon?). However, I'm not sure what you mean about Durin's Day. Given your study of the moons in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, you must know that the moon on the Dwarves' New Year must have been just past new and only visible as the merest sliver. Instead, what we see in TH:DoS is a moon that has almost reached its first quarter. And then at the beginning of TH:BotFA Smaug attacks Lake-town under a full moon. I would have thought that would have given you conniptions! Crazy I know it made me roll my eyes and grumble, "Oh, come on!"

And you weren't bothered at all about the statement Jackson gives Gandalf in Rivendell about the last moon of autumn and the first day of winter? We can ignore it as movie short-hand, but in terms of Tolkien's legendarium it is still nonsense.

"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 25 2017, 3:11pm)


Murlo
Rivendell


Oct 25 2017, 3:13pm

Post #32 of 34 (2121 views)
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Good enough for a movie [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
the moon on the Dwarves' New Year must have been just past new and only visible as the merest sliver


Of course, it would have been more accurate to have shown a moon "as thin as a nail-paring" for Durin's Day, but I could see them wanting a broader moon for cinematic purposes (although a super-thin moon would have looked just as good to me). As for the midsummer's eve moon, we don't know for sure it was a waxing moon, but at least they used a broad crescent for the scene!

As for Gandalf's definition of Durin's Day and the full-moon over Lake-town, I did think they were ridiculous, which is why I ended my post with a Laugh after your quotes.

Wink


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 25 2017, 3:19pm

Post #33 of 34 (2119 views)
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I see. [In reply to] Can't Post

It was your complementing of Jackson for his "accuracy" that threw me a bit. Where Durin's Day is concerned, he got one thing right: There was a moon! Tongue

"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things. Even Sauron knows them not. They are older than he."

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 25 2017, 3:20pm)


Murlo
Rivendell


Oct 25 2017, 3:24pm

Post #34 of 34 (2116 views)
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The movie got it "right" [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I said that they got it "right", but not that they got it "precisely" or "accurately" Sly

Although, it's not too difficult to get the general idea of a crescent moon, but at least they weren't waxing crescent moons rising after sunset Laugh

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