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Possible anthology Middle Earth movies?

Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 11 2017, 12:14am

Post #1 of 18 (1617 views)
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Possible anthology Middle Earth movies? Can't Post

I hope WB consider doing some spin-off movies in the possible realm of Middle Earth, like what Disney is doing with their Star Wars movies.
My suggestions:

War of the North: Siege of Erebor, Dol Guldur attacking Lothlorien and perhaps a alternated Scourge of the Shire? Scourge of the Shire battle happens simultaneously with mentioned battes, but it happens outside of the Shire. I would also add the Knights of Dol Amroth in this potential film. Taking the liberty of making them aiding Lothlorien instead of Gondor. The reason could be their relationship with movie Denethor and they had a fallout.

Oath of Eorl and how Rohan came to be: I want to see the battle with the wainriders.

Shadow of Mordor and War adaptation: This could be very good and would connect with the movieverse.

Prequel of young Aragorn: Have been suggested many times before.

Rise of the Witch King: Would be so epic.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 11 2017, 3:08am

Post #2 of 18 (1572 views)
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No sign of any so far. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's been a while since this was brought up. I've speculated often about a movie (or two, or three) centered around Aragorn's journeys and errantries prior to the War of the Ring. There are certainly some doubters, but I think the idea has a lot of potential.

The Wars in the North do seem to have some parallels with Star Wars: Rogue One, though this was story that happened at the end of the WotR rather than early on.

I think that the Scourge of the Shire is a no-go in the continuity of Jackson's Middle-earth. That ship has sailed.

Movies set earlier in the history of Middle-earth would be a harder sell. There would few (if any) characters that would carry over from the previous films, and the actors who played those characters are aging out of the parts. And the stories are for the most part little more than sketches that would require a massive amount of fleshing out. The same goes for those characters who would be unfamiliar to most of the audience.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 11 2017, 1:19pm

Post #3 of 18 (1533 views)
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War of the North, Dol Amroth, Hobbit army [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It's been a while since this was brought up. I've speculated often about a movie (or two, or three) centered around Aragorn's journeys and errantries prior to the War of the Ring. There are certainly some doubters, but I think the idea has a lot of potential.

The Wars in the North do seem to have some parallels with Star Wars: Rogue One, though this was story that happened at the end of the WotR rather than early on.

I think that the Scourge of the Shire is a no-go in the continuity of Jackson's Middle-earth. That ship has sailed.


What about a nod to the Scourge of Shire? After the Siege of Erebor is broken, some easterlings and orcs venture towards the Shire, but was struck down by hobbits that were alerted about their presences. A quick skirmish of hobbits shooting their arrows and killing off the invaders, before they can reach the shire. Like the onslaught of the Uruks outside Fangorn Forest by the Rohirrim.

What you do think of my inclusion of the Swan Knights to Lothlorien? They could have a fallout with Denethor, because of his behaviour and decided to aid the Eldars instead. During the siege of Minas Tirith, the passage to Gondor was blocked by heavy forces, forcing Dol Amroth's army to go to Pelagir, and use the ships to enter Lothlorien.


(This post was edited by Victariongreyjoy on Oct 11 2017, 1:26pm)


squire
Half-elven


Oct 11 2017, 7:32pm

Post #4 of 18 (1502 views)
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Could you run that last one by us again? [In reply to] Can't Post

How exactly do the Knights of Dol Amroth get to Lothlorien on ships from Pelargir, when the passage of Minas Tirith is blocked by war?





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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 11 2017, 7:49pm

Post #5 of 18 (1492 views)
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Seems unlikely to me. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
What about a nod to the Scourge of Shire? After the Siege of Erebor is broken, some easterlings and orcs venture towards the Shire, but was struck down by hobbits that were alerted about their presences. A quick skirmish of hobbits shooting their arrows and killing off the invaders, before they can reach the shire. Like the onslaught of the Uruks outside Fangorn Forest by the Rohirrim.


I'm not sure that any Orcs at all took part in the Battle of Dale and the subsequent siege of Erebor, but I'll leave that aside. So the Siege of Erebor is broken and some of the invaders travel west through Rhovanion, across the Misty Mountains, continuing through Eriador to reach the Shire? Sorry, I don't see it.


In Reply To
What you do think of my inclusion of the Swan Knights to Lothlorien? They could have a fallout with Denethor, because of his behaviour and decided to aid the Eldars instead. During the siege of Minas Tirith, the passage to Gondor was blocked by heavy forces, forcing Dol Amroth's army to go to Pelagir, and use the ships to enter Lothlorien.


I'm with Squire on this one. No matter how the Prince of Dol Amroth felt about Denethor, Imrahil would not have abandoned Gondor and Minas Tirith in its time of greatest need to go off to fight in another land. Such an act would have probably been deemed treason.

One thing I was half-expecting by the time of the game Shadow of Mordor was the appearance of an animated prequel movie as a home video release. That didn't occur, and it doesn't look like we are going to see that happen for Middle-earth: Shadow of War either. Maybe someone at Warner Bros. felt that that would strain the licensing agreement too far--especially as the Tolkien Estate is paying much closer attention to such things in recent years.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 11 2017, 7:52pm)


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 11 2017, 10:17pm

Post #6 of 18 (1466 views)
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Tolkien Estate and WB have settled their dispute. [In reply to] Can't Post

There are still some stories they could utilize in the appendix or expand.
I see your points about stories that happened long before the events of Hobbit and The Ring. Difficult, but not entirely impossible. But given the rave reviews of the Shadow of Mordor games, do you think WB perhaps could consider a adaptation of them?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 12 2017, 1:05am

Post #7 of 18 (1449 views)
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Different issues. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Tolkien Estate and WB have settled their dispute.
There are still some stories they could utilize in the appendix or expand.
I see your points about stories that happened long before the events of Hobbit and The Ring. Difficult, but not entirely impossible. But given the rave reviews of the Shadow of Mordor games, do you think WB perhaps could consider a adaptation of them?


I'm not sure that the dispute you mention really addresses the specific issue that we are discussing here. A movie prequel to a Middle-earth video game or an adaptation of same might arguably be beyond the scope of the rights acquired by The Saul Zaentz Company or, at least, that might be a concern for Warner Bros.' lawyers.

Honestly, though, I think if there was going to be such an adaptation or prequel movie of these games, we would have learned something about it by now.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 12 2017, 8:48pm

Post #8 of 18 (1380 views)
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Aragorn Strider prequel? [In reply to] Can't Post

Should there be one or two movies about young Aragorn? Btw, are there any major battles during his journey?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 12 2017, 10:01pm

Post #9 of 18 (1374 views)
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The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Should there be one or two movies about young Aragorn? Btw, are there any major battles during his journey?


You might want to take a look at "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" that is part of Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A. Basically, it tells Aragorn's life's story beginning with the marriage of his parents Arathorn and Gilraen, and ending with the deaths of King Elessar (Aragorn) and Arwen.

A movie might start with the circumstances around Aragorn's birth, the death of his father and how he, under the name Estel ('Hope'), was fostered by Elrond in Rivendell until his twentieth year. When Aragorn turns twenty, Elrond reveals to him his true name and heritage. The young Ranger meets Arwen for the first time and the two fall in love. Later that year Aragorn departs Rivendell to travel on his own.

The main plot would involve the years of Aragorn's great journeys and errantries (2957-80 in Tolkien's timeline; it would be earlier in Peter Jackson's continuity). If this follows the film-continuity then Aragorn would have to meet Thranduil sometime before Thorin's Quest of Erebor. The young Dúnadan meets Gandalf and they become friends. The two go on many journeys together and Aragorn embarks on others alone, traveling to distant parts of Middle-earth. Using 'traveling names" Aragorn meets people both good and bad from many cultures. He rides with King Thengel of Rohan, the father of Théoden. Using the name Thorongil, Aragorn serves under Ecthelion the Steward of Gondor and becomes a rival of the Steward's son Denethor (yes, THAT Denethor). He leaves Gondor after leading a successful raid against the Corsair fleet in Umbar. In time Aragorn is allowed to enter Lothlórien and is reunited with Arwen. They spend a season together and plight their troth upon the hill of Cerin Amroth.

It might be possible to cover all of this in a single movie, but it might be better to spread it out a bit. There is a lot of leeway for Aragorn's great journeys because Tolkien does not describe them an any detail.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 12 2017, 10:09pm)


Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 12 2017, 10:34pm

Post #10 of 18 (1359 views)
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Thengel and Aragorn [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
Should there be one or two movies about young Aragorn? Btw, are there any major battles during his journey?


You might want to take a look at "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" that is part of Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A. Basically, it tells Aragorn's life's story beginning with the marriage of his parents Arathorn and Gilraen, and ending with the deaths of King Elessar (Aragorn) and Arwen.

A movie might start with the circumstances around Aragorn's birth, the death of his father and how he, under the name Estel ('Hope'), was fostered by Elrond in Rivendell until his twentieth year. When Aragorn turns twenty, Elrond reveals to him his true name and heritage. The young Ranger meets Arwen for the first time and the two fall in love. Later that year Aragorn departs Rivendell to travel on his own.

The main plot would involve the years of Aragorn's great journeys and errantries (2957-80 in Tolkien's timeline; it would be earlier in Peter Jackson's continuity). If this follows the film-continuity then Aragorn would have to meet Thranduil sometime before Thorin's Quest of Erebor. The young Dúnadan meets Gandalf and they become friends. The two go on many journeys together and Aragorn embarks on others alone, traveling to distant parts of Middle-earth. Using 'traveling names" Aragorn meets people both good and bad from many cultures. He rides with King Thengel of Rohan, the father of Théoden.


Who did they fight against? Was there a major battle?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 13 2017, 1:15am

Post #11 of 18 (1345 views)
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Aragorn in Rohan [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thengel and Aragorn

Who did they fight against? Was there a major battle?


'...I have been in this land before, more than once, and ridden with the host of the Rohirrim, though in other name and in other guise. You I have not seen before, for you are young, but I have spoken with Éomund your father, and with Théoden son of Thengel.'

Aragorn to Éowyn: 'Nay, lady,' said he, 'I am not astray; for I have walked in this land ere you were born to grace it.' Éowyn was born in the year TA 2995 (for the films subtract seventeen years to make that 2978),

Tolkien did not write of any specific conflicts or battles in Rohan during the time that Aragorn spent in service to King Thengel. However, that does not mean that he saw no action there. He might have fought Orcs carrying out raids from their mountain lairs. He might have helped repel Dunlending attacks against Rohirrim herds and farmers.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


squire
Half-elven


Oct 13 2017, 11:59am

Post #12 of 18 (1301 views)
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Is repelling raiders and brigands the same as 'battle'? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've often wondered about Rohan's military history in the time of Theoden and Thengel. The old king in the book seems to have fought in actual wars, using developed large-unit tactics for commanders, weaponry, and horsemanship. That seems apparent in the buildup to and conduct of his great incursion onto the Pellenor Fields. We see a similar presentation of long-honed skills in massed battle formations in the posthumously published 'Battles of the Fords of Isen' in Unfinished Tales.

But, as you say, in Tolkien's appendices, the history of Rohan seems to be relatively peaceful during all the time of Theoden's long life, without any wars or invasions. I'm sure you're right that patrolling the marches and borders against Dunlendings and orcs required the Rohirrim to stay trained, armed, and ready. But the scale, and the tactics, would seem to be on a completely different level, almost the difference between maintaining mounted ranger squadrons and an actual army.

The king, for instance, would hardly have ridden out from Edoras to aid Helm in the suppression of a band of brigands from Dunland. So, as Victariongreyjoy asks, have we any reason to imagine a "major" battle in Rohan for Aragorn, riding with Thengel, to fight? Or would Hollywood step in, and provide one for free, since Tolkien unaccountably forgot to write his backstory appropriately?



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Victariongreyjoy
Rivendell


Oct 13 2017, 3:08pm

Post #13 of 18 (1278 views)
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Dunland and Durthang [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I've often wondered about Rohan's military history in the time of Theoden and Thengel. The old king in the book seems to have fought in actual wars, using developed large-unit tactics for commanders, weaponry, and horsemanship. That seems apparent in the buildup to and conduct of his great incursion onto the Pellenor Fields. We see a similar presentation of long-honed skills in massed battle formations in the posthumously published 'Battles of the Fords of Isen' in Unfinished Tales.

But, as you say, in Tolkien's appendices, the history of Rohan seems to be relatively peaceful during all the time of Theoden's long life, without any wars or invasions. I'm sure you're right that patrolling the marches and borders against Dunlendings and orcs required the Rohirrim to stay trained, armed, and ready. But the scale, and the tactics, would seem to be on a completely different level, almost the difference between maintaining mounted ranger squadrons and an actual army.

The king, for instance, would hardly have ridden out from Edoras to aid Helm in the suppression of a band of brigands from Dunland. So, as Victariongreyjoy asks, have we any reason to imagine a "major" battle in Rohan for Aragorn, riding with Thengel, to fight? Or would Hollywood step in, and provide one for free, since Tolkien unaccountably forgot to write his backstory appropriately?


Since the information of the battles Thengel and Thorongil participated together were so wague, why not make up a battle called Battle of Eastfold?
Forces from the fortress Durthang allied with Dunland, marches toward Edoras, but was met with a huge force of Rohan and even perhaps some elite fighters from Gondor(Swan Knights)?
The evil forces can be lead by a fictional black numenorean chieftain from Dunland.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 13 2017, 4:25pm

Post #14 of 18 (1270 views)
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Aragorn defending Rohan [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is repelling raiders and brigands the same as 'battle'?


'Battle' might be overstating it, but we really don't know. it might be more accurate to guess that young Aragorn and the Rohirrim might have engaged in a number of skirmishes with Dunlending bandits and Orc raiders.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


squire
Half-elven


Oct 13 2017, 6:12pm

Post #15 of 18 (1256 views)
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'Making it up' would be the key, of course. [In reply to] Can't Post

I like the idea of the Dunlendings, far to the west of Edoras, circling around to the north, close to Fangorn and the Downs, in order to link up with the forces from Durthang, who would have marched presumably north through Isenmouthe, out the Morannon, across the Dagorlad and both the east and west ranges of the Emyn Muil and Anduin itself, in order to reach the Eastfold. The Dunlendings having a black numenorean as chief would certainly be helpful in communicating with his opposite number from Durthang, presumably also a black numenorean. Perhaps they could be brothers, like Faramir and Boromir?

The huge force from Rohan is easy to imagine, since the King would have had several weeks' notice that the attack was coming, due to the Dunlendings' passage across the entire breadth of his kingdom. And the arrival of elite Swan Knights, from south of the White Mountains, could assume 1) they are actually dead and ghostlike, thus able to traverse the Paths of the Dead to get right to Dunharrow and Edoras by the back door, so to speak; or 2) they sailed to Enedwaith and ascended the Isen, passed through the Gap of Rohan, and re-equipped at Helms Deep before arriving at Edoras - luckily no Dunlendings would be left in Dunland to oppose their approach because that entire army had gone off to the Eastfold.

This is classic Tolkien stuff, I agree. It's the amazing coincidences, timely alignment of forces, and casual use of geographic place names that seals a scenario like this as being just right for a new Tolkien movie. The only thing missing, of course, is Glorfindel. How to fit him in?



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


Oct 13 2017, 7:44pm

Post #16 of 18 (1243 views)
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G. is helping Bombadil and the fox organize the diversion./ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

And Rose drew him in, and set him on the harpsichord bench, and put little Wilhelm Friedemann upon his lap.

He began composing a fugue. 'Well, I'm Bach,' he said.


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Oct 13 2017, 8:56pm

Post #17 of 18 (1239 views)
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Whilst some middle-earth movies I wouldn't mind seen made [In reply to] Can't Post

Such as the bridge movie could finally be done, the idea of a ME franchise so to speak fills me with horror. Fills me with more horror in the fact that i would be pesuaded to part with my hard-earned cash to see some of it. Can you imagine? M/E movie after ME movie, most with little relavance to the actual source material. i expect directors like JJ Abrams would have a go at one, we would get reboots, prequeals lots of Aragorn no doubt. No, we might be better of just calling it a day now!


KingTurgon
Rohan


Nov 17 2017, 4:22pm

Post #18 of 18 (790 views)
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The Way I See It [In reply to] Can't Post

If I don't like it, who cares! I still have the original films to enjoy and no one can force me to watch something I don't like again. Why not give it a chance?

1) FOTR 2) ROTK 3) AUJ 4) TTT 5) DOS 6) BOFA

 
 

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