Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Tolkien: The Other Adventure

dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 16 2017, 9:34pm

Post #1 of 8 (682 views)
Shortcut
Tolkien: The Other Adventure Can't Post

I came across this today, it looks like a new article and not a reprint:

J.R.R. Tolkien's other adventure: Courting and marrying Edith Bratt

Tolkien went through a trial to gain his Luthien - but in return, she had to give up her heritage (religion). I wonder how different things may have been, had she already been married when Tolkien was finally able to contact her.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 16 2017, 10:13pm

Post #2 of 8 (648 views)
Shortcut
Not a metaphore! But... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can definitely see a parallel between young Tolkien and Miss Bratt and Aragorn and Arwen. One important difference is that In Aragorn's case, his surrogate father was also the father of his beloved. But in that day A Catholic in love with a Protestant might as well be a mortal in love with an Elf. Interesting that both women chose to convert!

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


squire
Half-elven


Aug 16 2017, 10:21pm

Post #3 of 8 (658 views)
Shortcut
Very odd essay [In reply to] Can't Post

The facts follow Carpenter's biography and Tolkien's letters, but the style reflects the author's haphazard mastery of English. This is the second notice I've seen in two weeks that Tolkien's romance with his wife is of interest to the internet. I guess it's because there are a couple of planned biopics in development.

Without wishing to contradict the clear fact that the couple stayed together for a lifetime, I wonder if "Tolkien's muse" is really the best description of Mrs. Tolkien. Even this article admits that she had no interest in his professional or creative activities; the fact that she was the model for Luthien Tinuviel at the beginning of that story doesn't really inform our understanding of the later developments it went through (Beren changed from an Elf to a Man - was that because Tolkien changed his identity in his memory of his wife dancing in the hemlock grove? It seems unlikely.)

Even biographer Carpenter uncovered evidence of various strains in their marriage, over the years. A "shattering scene" is my favorite phrase from a moment when Edith tried to put her foot down about her husband's choices of friends and social activities in the late 1930s. That's not uncommon in many marriages, and theirs did last. But it seems to me to be overly Romantic to present this story of thwarted courtship as the prelude to a life of wedded bliss. A lifetime's marriage, yes; bliss? well, who among us can honestly claim to live in bliss? No more could the Tolkiens.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 16 2017, 10:37pm

Post #4 of 8 (644 views)
Shortcut
Correction! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I know there is not a second 'e' in metaphor. I spotted the error too late to correct it.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 17 2017, 11:46am

Post #5 of 8 (594 views)
Shortcut
She gave up her piano playing for him [In reply to] Can't Post

Trying to recall of the top of my head here: I think she had played piano outside the home at times, maybe at her former church? But all that went by the wayside when she agreed to marry Tolkien.

What a loss of talent - but that was the way for women back then, they were expected to set aside their own desires and "be obedient" to their husbands.

I also recall that in the later years of their marriage, they slept in separate bedrooms, supposedly due to Tolkien's snoring. Might his tendency to be a night-owl also have had some effect here?

And it was a Catholic marriage, so it never would have been dissolved for any reason.

But she must have been very lonely at times, a nightingale in a cage.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 17 2017, 1:27pm

Post #6 of 8 (590 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Trying to recall of the top of my head here: I think she had played piano outside the home at times, maybe at her former church? But all that went by the wayside when she agreed to marry Tolkien.

What a loss of talent - but that was the way for women back then, they were expected to set aside their own desires and "be obedient" to their husbands.


When they were living in Mrs. Faulkner’s boarding house the "Old Lady" was keen enough for Edith to entertain the landlady's guests at her social gatherings, but otherwise forbade her from practicing or giving lessons.


I also recall that in the later years of their marriage, they slept in separate bedrooms, supposedly due to Tolkien's snoring. Might his tendency to be a night-owl also have had some effect here?

There’s another possibility. A lot of soldiers who have been through battle are okay enough for years afterward, but as they get older they start “refighting the war” in their sleep: thrashing, screaming, and even blindly striking out. At that time they usually opt for separate beds or bedrooms so they don’t inadvertently hurt their wives.


But she must have been very lonely at times, a nightingale in a cage.

Yes. Word of her illegitimate birth led to the other Oxford wives to shun her socially. However, a bright light came about due to Tolkien being about the only professor who took female students seriously. Supposedly when young ladies came over for tutoring Edith came into her own and became quite the friendly maternal figure a lot of them needed away from home.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 21 2017, 4:01pm

Post #7 of 8 (473 views)
Shortcut
That's true. [In reply to] Can't Post

Back then, the only way a Protestant was allowed to have a marriage sanctioned by the Catholic Church was to convert...or at least, agree to raise any children as Catholic.

Which is really what they did; as I recall, in her later years she did not attend Mass, even though her husband attended daily.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 21 2017, 4:09pm

Post #8 of 8 (483 views)
Shortcut
Oh, that's right! [In reply to] Can't Post

Mrs. Faulkner would not let her practice - that was downright nasty!

I didn't realize that, about "battle" dreams, but it makes a lot of sense, as the former soldiers would do their best to hide their PTSD ("stiff upper lip, boys") during the day, but the horrors were still there. "Snoring" may have been the simplest excuse to give.

Tolkien did have a large number of female students he tutored, didn't he. I wonder if any of them came 'round for tea and chat with Edith when he was off with the Inklings.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.