|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 2 2017, 1:18am
Post #1 of 8
(1246 views)
Shortcut
|
It's time for some BS!
|
Can't Post
|
|
After reading kdrevette's post about the Ring's destruction, I was inspired to take a long look at the promise Smeagol made to Frodo. I was struck at the similarity of this first encounter and their last.
Here's the first of a series of 6 Book Spoilers that looks at the evolution of a promise... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. The Taming of Sméagol
...[On the cliffs of Emyn Muil] "The hobbits seated themselves beside [Smeagol], one on either side, with their backs to the stony wall, resting their legs. There was no need for any arrangement by word: they knew that they must not sleep for a moment.... ...No one stirred. Gollum sat with his legs drawn up, knees under chin, flat hands and feet splayed on the ground, his eyes closed; but he seemed tense, as if thinking or listening....
... ...Suddenly, with startling agility and speed, straight off the ground with a jump... ...bounded forward into the darkness. But that was just what Frodo and Sam had expected. Sam was on him before he had gone two paces after his spring. Frodo coming behind grabbed his leg and threw him.
... 'Your rope might prove useful again, Sam,' he said.
... Sam got out the rope... '...It's round your neck this rope ought to go, and a tight noose too.'
... Gollum lay quiet and tried no further tricks. He did not answer Sam, but gave him a swift venomous look.
... 'All we need is something to keep a hold on him,' said Frodo. 'We want him to walk... ...Tie one end to his ankle, and keep a grip on the other end...'
... ...Sam tied the knot. The result surprised them both. Gollum began to scream, a thin, tearing sound, very horrible to hear. He writhed, and tried to get his mouth to his ankle and bite the rope. He kept on screaming...
... ...Frodo was convinced that he really was in pain; but it could not be from the knot... ...it was not too tight, indeed hardly tight enough.... '...If you will try to run away, you must be tied; but we don't wish to hurt you.'
... 'It hurts us, it hurts us,' hissed Gollum. 'It freezes, it bites! Elves twisted it, curse them! Nasty cruel hobbits..! ... Take it off us! It hurts us.'
... 'No, I will not take it off you,' said Frodo, 'not unless' -- he paused a moment in thought -- 'not unless there is any promise you can make that I can trust.'
... 'We will swear to do what he wants, yes, yess,' said Gollum, still twisting and grabbling... '...It hurts us.'
... 'Swear?' said Frodo.
One Ring to rule them all and in the Darkness bind them.
...'Would you commit your promise to that, Sméagol? It will hold you. But it is more treacherous than you are. It may twist your words. Beware!'
... Gollum cowered. 'On the Precious, on the Precious...!'
... '...And what would you swear?' asked Frodo.
... 'To be very very good,' said Gollum... ...crawling to Frodo's feet he grovelled before him whispering hoarsely: a shudder ran over him, as if the words shook his very bones with fear. 'Sméagol will swear never, never, to let Him have it. Never! Sméagol will save it. But he must swear on the Precious.'
... 'No! not on it,' said Frodo... ...with stern pity. 'All you wish is to see it and touch it, if you can, though you know it would drive you mad. Not on it. Swear by it, if you will. For you know where it is... ...It is before you.'
... For a moment it appeared to Sam that his master had grown and Gollum had shrunk... ...Yet the two were in some way akin and not alien: they could reach one another's minds....
... '...Now speak your promise!'
... 'We promises, yes, I promise!' said Gollum. 'I will serve the master of the Precious. Good master, good Sméagol, gollum, gollum!' Suddenly he began to weep and bite at his ankle again.
... 'Take the rope off, Sam!' said Frodo."
We have been there and back again.
TIME Google Calendar
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014
5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
noWizardme
Half-elven
Aug 2 2017, 11:01am
Post #2 of 8
(1221 views)
Shortcut
|
NB There's a discussion going on about this in the Reading Room
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
As you probably realise - but a link to the RR discussion might be helpful, as it has gone in a different direction to that movie board post you linked to.
The RR discussion starts here:
http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=931452#931452
~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 2 2017, 11:50am
Post #4 of 8
(1221 views)
Shortcut
|
Here's the second of a series of 6 Book Spoilers that looks at the evolution of a promise... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. The Black Gate is Closed ... 'Well, here we are!' said Sam. 'Here's the Gate, and it looks to me as if that's about as far as we are ever going to get... ...I suppose it's no good asking "what way do we go now?" We can't go no further—unless we want to ask the Orcs for a lift.'
... 'No, no!' said Gollum. 'No use. We can't go further. Sméagol said so. He said: we'll go to the Gate, and then we'll see... ...O yes, my precious, we do see. Sméagol knew hobbits could not go this way. O yes, Sméagol knew.'
... 'Then what the plague did you bring us here for?' said Sam...
... '...Master said so. Master says: bring us to the Gate. So good Sméagol does so. Master said so, wise master.'
... 'I did,' said Frodo. His face was grim and set, but resolute... '...I said so, because I purpose to enter Mordor, and I know no other way. Therefore I shall go this way. I do not ask anyone to go with me.'
... 'No, no, master!' wailed Gollum, pawing at him, and seeming in great distress. 'No use that way! No use! Don't take the Precious to Him! He'll eat us all, if He gets it, eat all the world. Keep it, nice master, and be kind to Sméagol... ...Or go away, go to nice places, and give it back to little Sméagol. Yes, yes, master: give it back, eh? Sméagol will keep it safe; he will do lots of good, especially to nice hobbits. Hobbits go home. Don't go to the Gate!'
... 'I am commanded to go to the land of Mordor, and therefore I shall go,' said Frodo. 'If there is only one way, then I must take it. What comes after must come....'
... '...Sméagol,' [Frodo] said, 'I will trust you once more. Indeed it seem that I must do so, and that it is my fate to receive help from you, where I least looked for it, and your fate to help me whom you long pursued with evil purpose. So far you have deserved well of me and have kept your promise truly.... ...for twice now we have been in your power, and you have done no harm to us. Nor have you tried to take from me what you once sought... ...But I warn you, Sméagol, you are in danger.'
... 'Yes, yes, master!' said Gollum. 'Dreadful danger! Sméagol's bones shake to think of it, but he doesn't run away. He must help nice master.'
... 'I did not mean the danger that we all share,' said Frodo. 'I mean a danger to yourself alone. You swore a promise by what you call the Precious. Remember that! It will hold you to it; but it will seek a way to twist it to your own undoing. Already you are being twisted. You revealed yourself to me just now... ...Give it back to Sméagol you said. Do not say that again! Do not let that thought grow in you! You will never get it back... ...the desire of it may betray you to a bitter end... ...In the last need, Sméagol, I should put on the Precious; and the Precious mastered you long ago. If I, wearing it, were to command you, you would obey, even if it were to leap from a precipice or to cast yourself into the fire. And such would be my command. So have a care, Sméagol..!'
... ...this speech abashed and terrified [Smeagol]. He grovelled on the ground and could speak no clear words but nice master...."
We have been there and back again.
TIME Google Calendar
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014
5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Aug 2 2017, 11:51am)
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 3 2017, 10:53am
Post #5 of 8
(1134 views)
Shortcut
|
Here's the third of a series of 6 Book Spoilers that looks at the evolution of a promise... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. The Passage of the Marshes
... "Frodo seemed to be weary... ...to the point of exhaustion.... ...he walked like one who carries a load, the weight of which is ever increasing; and he dragged along, slower and slower, so that Sam had often to beg Gollum to wait....
... In fact with every step towards the gates of Mordor Frodo felt the Ring on its chain about his neck grow more burdensome... ...But far more he was troubled by the Eye... ...It was that more than the drag of the Ring that made him cower and stoop as he walked...
... ...Gollum probably felt something of the same sort. But what went on in his wretched heart between the pressure of the Eye, and the lust of the Ring that was so near, and his grovelling promise made half in the fear of cold iron, the hobbits did not guess.....
...
... ...Sam woke up thinking that he heard his master calling. It was evening. Frodo could not have called, for he had fallen asleep, and had slid down nearly to the bottom of the pit. Gollum was by him... ...Gollum was talking to himself. Sméagol was holding a debate with some other thought that used the same voice but made it squeak and hiss. A pale light and a green light alternated in his eyes as he spoke.
... 'Sméagol promised,' said the first thought.
... 'Yes, yes, my precious,' came the answer, 'we promised: to save our Precious, not to let Him have it—never. But it's going to Him... ...What's the hobbit going to do with it, we wonders, yes we wonders.'
... 'I don't know. I can't help it. Master's got it. Sméagol promised to help the master.'
... 'Yes, yes, to help the master: the master of the precious. But if we was master, then we could help ourselfs, yes, and still keep promises.'
... 'But Sméagol said he would be very very good. Nice hobbit! He took cruel rope off Sméagol's leg. He speaks nicely to me....'
... '...Let's be good, good as fish, sweet one, but to ourselfs. Not hurt the nice hobbit, of course, no, no.'
... 'But the Precious holds the promise,' the voice of Sméagol objected.
... 'Then take it... ...and let's hold it ourselfs! Then we shall be master, gollum! Make the other hobbit, the nasty suspicious hobbit, make him crawl, yes, gollum!'
... 'But not the nice hobbit?'
... 'Oh no, not if it doesn't please us. Still he's a Baggins... ...We hates Bagginses.'
... 'No, not this Baggins.'
... 'Yes, every Baggins. All peoples that keep the Precious. We must have it!'
... 'But He'll see, He'll know. He'll take it from us!'
... 'He sees. He knows. He heard us make silly promises—against His orders, yes. Must take it. The Wraiths are searching. Must take it.'"
We have been there and back again.
TIME Google Calendar
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014
5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 4 2017, 1:10pm
Post #6 of 8
(1112 views)
Shortcut
|
Here's the fourth of a series of 6 Book Spoilers that looks at the evolution of a promise in Ithilien... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. The Forbidden Pool ... "'The price is not set on the fish,' said Faramir. 'Only to come here and look on the pool bears the penalty of death. I have spared you so far at the prayer of Frodo here, who says that of him at least you have deserved some thanks. But you must also satisfy me. What is your name... ...whither do you go? What is your business?'
... 'We are lost, lost,' said Gollum. 'No name, no business, no Precious, nothing. Only empty. Only hungry; yes, we are hungry. A few little fishes... ...and they say death. So wise they are... ...so very just.'
... 'Not very wise,' said Faramir. 'But just: yes perhaps, as just as our little wisdom allows. Unloose him, Frodo!' Faramir took a small nail-knife from his belt and handed it to Frodo. Gollum, misunderstanding the gesture, squealed and fell down.
... 'Now, Sméagol!' said Frodo. 'You must trust me. I will not desert you. Answer truthfully, if you can. It will do you good not harm.' He cut the cords on Gollum's wrists and ankles and raised him to his feet.
... 'Come hither!' said Faramir. 'Look at me! Do you know the name of this place? Have you been here before?'
... Slowly Gollum raised his eyes and looked unwillingly into Faramir's. All light went out of them, and they stared bleak and pale for a moment into the clear unwavering eyes of the man of Gondor. There was a still silence. Then Gollum dropped his head and shrank down.... '...We doesn't know and we doesn't want to know' he whimpered. 'Never came here; never come again.'
... 'There are locked doors and closed windows in your mind, and dark rooms behind them... ...But in this I judge that you speak the truth. It is well for you. What oath will you swear never to return; and never to lead any living creature hither by word or sign?'
... 'Master knows... ...Yes, he knows. We will promise Master, if he saves us. We'll promise to It, yes.' He crawled to Frodo's feet. 'Save us, nice Master!' he whined. 'Sméagol promises to Precious, promises faithfully. Never come again, ever speak, no never! No, precious, no!'
... 'Are you satisfied?' said Faramir.
... 'Yes... ...At least, you must either accept this promise or carry out your law. You will get no more. But I promised that if he came to me, he should not be harmed. And I would not be proved faithless....'
... '...Very good... ...I surrender you to your master, to Frodo son of Drogo. Let him declare what he will do with you...!'... '...I say to you,' said Faramir, turning to Gollum, 'you are under doom of death; but while you walk with Frodo you are safe for our part. Yet if ever you be found by any man of Gondor astray without him, the doom shall fall. And may death find you swiftly, within Gondor or without, if you do not well serve him...'"
We have been there and back again.
TIME Google Calendar
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014
5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 5 2017, 11:38am
Post #7 of 8
(1084 views)
Shortcut
|
Here's the fifth of a series of 6 Book Spoilers that looks at the evolution of a promise in 2 locations in Cirith Ungol... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From The Stairs of Cirith Ungol: The Two Towers ... "'Wake up, Mr. Frodo! Wake up! Frodo stirred and opened his eyes, and smiled, seeing Sam's face bending over him. 'Calling me early aren't you, Sam?' he said. 'It's dark still!'
... 'Yes it's always dark here,' said Sam. 'But Gollum's come back, Mr. Frodo, and he says it's tomorrow. So we must be walking on. The last lap.'
... Frodo drew a deep breath and sat up. 'The last lap!' he said....
... [Frodo speaking to Smeagol] '...we seem to have come to the point, you and I, Sméagol. Tell me. Can we find the rest of the way by ourselves? We're in sight of the pass, of a way in... ... if we can find it now, then I suppose our agreement can be said to be over. You have done what you promised, and you're free... ...to go back to food and rest, wherever you wish to go, except to servants of the Enemy....'
... '...No, no, not yet,' Gollum whined. 'O no! They can't find the way themselves, can they? O no indeed. There's the tunnel coming. Sméagol must go on. No rest. No food. Not yet.'"
From Shelob's Lair: The Two Towers ... "But that desire was yet far away, and long now had she been hungry, lurking in her den, while the power of Sauron grew... ...she lusted for sweeter meat. And Gollum had brought it to her.
... 'We'll see, we'll see,' he said often to himself, when the evil mood was on him, as he walked the dangerous road from Emyn Muil to Morgul Vale, 'we'll see... ...when She throws away the bones and the empty garments... ...we shall get it, the Precious, a reward for poor Sméagol who brings nice food. And we'll save the Precious, as we promised. O yes. And when we've got it safe... ...Then we'll pay every one back!'
... So he thought in an inner chamber of his cunning, which he still hoped to hide from her... ...when he had come to her again and had bowed low before her while his companions slept."
We have been there and back again.
TIME Google Calendar
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014
5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
|
|
|
grammaboodawg
Immortal
Aug 6 2017, 12:18pm
Post #8 of 8
(1020 views)
Shortcut
|
|
It's time for yet even more BS!
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Here's the sixth and last of a series of 6 Book Spoilers that looks at the evolution of a promise at the Firey Mountain... for a moment of Tolkien-zen. From Mount Doom: The Return of the King ... "Again [Sam] lifted Frodo and drew his hands down to his own breast, letting his master's legs dangle. Then he bowed his head and struggled off along the climbing road... ...Panting under his load Sam turned the bend; and even as he did so... ...he had a glimpse of something falling from the crag, like a small piece of black stone that had toppled off as he passed.
... A sudden weight smote him and he crashed forward...
... '...Wicked masster!' it hissed. 'Wicked masster cheats us; cheats Sméagol, gollum.... ...He musstn't hurt Preciouss. Give it to Sméagol, yess, give it to uss! Give it to uss!'
... With a violent heave Sam rose up. At once he drew his sword; but he could do nothing. Gollum and Frodo were locked together. Gollum was tearing at his master, trying to get at the chain and the Ring. This was probably the only thing that could have roused the dying embers of Frodo's heart and will... ...He fought back with a sudden fury that amazed Sam, and Gollum also.... ...Frodo flung him off and rose up quivering.
... 'Down, down!' he gasped, clutching his hand to his breast, so that beneath the cover of his leather shirt he clasped the Ring. 'Down, you creeping thing, and out of my path! Your time is at an end. You cannot betray me or slay me now...'
... '...Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.'
... The crouching shape backed away, terror in its blinking eyes, and yet at the same time insatiable desire...
... '...Look out!' cried Sam. 'He'll spring!' He stepped forward, brandishing his sword. 'Quick, Master!' he gasped. 'Go on! Go on! No time to lose. I'll deal with him. Go on!'
... Frodo looked at him as if at one now far away. 'Yes, I must go on,' he said. 'Farewell, Sam...! ...He turned and went on, walking slowly but erect, up the climbing path."
... [Sam] came to the dark door in the Mountain's side, the door of the Sammath Naur.... ...For a moment he stood, his heart beating with wild fears, and then he plunged in. A shadow followed him.
...The light sprang up again, and there on the brink of the chasm, at the very Crack of Doom, stood Frodo, black against the glare, tense, erect, but still as if he had been turned to stone.
... 'Master!' cried Sam.
... Then Frodo stirred and spoke with a clear voice...
... '...I have come,' he said. 'But I do not choose now to do what I came to do. I will not do this deed. The Ring is mine!' And suddenly, as he set it on his finger, he vanished...
... ...Something struck Sam violently in the back... ...striking his head against the stony floor, as a dark shape sprang over him. He lay still and for a moment all went black....
... ...He was dazed... ...and then he saw a strange and terrible thing. Gollum on the edge of the abyss was fighting like a mad thing with an unseen foe. To and fro he swayed... ...so near the brink that almost he tumbled in, now dragging back, falling to the ground, rising, and falling again. And all the while he hissed but spoke no words.
... The fires below awoke in anger, the red light blazed, and all the cavern was filled with a great glare and heat. Suddenly Sam saw Gollum's long hands draw upwards to his mouth; his white fangs gleamed, and then snapped as they bit. Frodo gave a cry, and there he was, fallen upon his knees at the chasm's edge... ...Gollum, dancing like a mad thing, held aloft the ring with Frodo's finger still thrust within its circle. It shone now as if verily it was wrought of living fire.
... 'Precious, precious, precious!' Gollum cried 'My Precious! O my Precious!' And with that even as his eyes were lifted up to gloat on his prize, he stepped too far, toppled, wavered for a moment on the brink, and then with a shriek he fell. Out of the depths came his last wail precious, and he was gone."
We have been there and back again.
TIME Google Calendar
6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014
5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015
TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit
(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Aug 6 2017, 12:24pm)
|
|
|
|
|
