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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Is Radagast a health hazard?
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Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 8 2017, 12:33pm

Post #51 of 73 (2317 views)
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ba dum tss [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep.


Paulo Gabriel
The Shire

Aug 10 2017, 1:44am

Post #52 of 73 (2270 views)
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I personally regard as a troll any one (or any groups of people) [In reply to] Can't Post

who think a director would spent US$700 million on a franchise based on a book and didn't even read said book. That seems so absurd that it's got to be trolling. But of course, that's ''my opinion'' and you are free to disagree. Or it's a sincere but insane opinion.


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 10 2017, 10:42am

Post #53 of 73 (2235 views)
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the point is [In reply to] Can't Post

the thread from the start was just a trolling...

... but since people played along, despite the obviousness of it, so did I

Forgive me but I thought a sense of humor had finally allowed such a thread to exist, and that even certain Jackson fans were playing along in the same spirit.

Guess not (for some).


Yes of course I think Jackson at least read the book.

sigh.

I also joined in because I've yet to see anyone who makes the Merlyn connection (to White) add the side note about Merlyn wiping his heard of bird droopings...

... which is about as serious as I got here, since even White didn't let that detail go.

But when will I learn.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Aug 10 2017, 10:56am)


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 10 2017, 11:32am

Post #54 of 73 (2228 views)
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WN [In reply to] Can't Post

In the movie, it appears Radagast is composed of at least 14% bird feces. Bird droppings can carry up to 60 diseases hazardous to humans and hobbits alike, such as; avian flu, E. Coli, west nile, the list goes on. Do you suppose Gandalf was putting himself in harms way, going to visit him? Oh wait, that's right, he's not human. Never mind.

To get back on topic... if... "WN virus is an arthropod-borne virus belonging to the Japanese encephalitis complex of the Flavivirus genus. Flaviviruses are lipid-enveloped, single stranded RNA viruses, with a genome of approximately 11,000 nucleotides."

... as I've heard, the even Hobbits shouldn't have to worry, as there is no Nile in Middle-earth!

But even better, I should probably have never minded.


QuiteShocked
The Shire


Aug 10 2017, 11:44pm

Post #55 of 73 (2184 views)
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Good catch! [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no Nile in Middle-earth, so yes I suppose there cannot be West Nile Virus, or north or south or east for that matter. If I'm not quite mistaken, wasn't there an episode of King of Queens where Doug thought he contracted West Nile Virus from eating a Chicken McNugget he found wedged between the seat and armrest of his delivery van?


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 1:54am

Post #56 of 73 (2166 views)
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That sounds like Doug... [In reply to] Can't Post

I may have to watch every show over again, just to check!

I remember in the early episodes, Carrie had a sister <- I'm not sure that's pertinent in any way, but I'm pretty sure it's true.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 2:10am

Post #57 of 73 (2164 views)
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West Nile Virus [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems that the traceable lineage of the West Nile virus only goes back about 1000 years. Nonetheless, don't confuse the name with the river. It just happens to be the case that "[it] was first identified in the West Nile subregion in Uganda in 1937."*

We don't know for sure that a more complete map of Middle-earth might not show some version of the River Nile, but the Nile would have been in the eastern region of Harad, south of Khand.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Nile_fever

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 5:49am

Post #58 of 73 (2154 views)
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Yeah but... [In reply to] Can't Post

... it's West Nile district 'cause it's not East of the Nile!

And I doubt a more complete version of a Middle-earth map would have "Nile" in it.

Tongue


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 6:02am

Post #59 of 73 (2152 views)
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Middle-earth Geography [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And I doubt a more complete version of a Middle-earth map would have "Nile" in it.

Tongue


No, certainly not a river named the Nile. However, if you've ever checked out The Shaping of Middle-earth, you can see that Tolkien did envision Harad as looking very much like modern Africa. If he had developed that, he could have had an analogous river in approximately the same location as the Nile, much as Forlindon in the Third Age had a river that followed much of the same course as the River Gelion in Beleriand of the First Age.



"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 11 2017, 6:11am)


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 11:08am

Post #60 of 73 (2118 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

"No, certainly not a river named the Nile."

Then you can't have West Nile virus...

... no matter the geography of Middle-earth (as envisioned at the time those maps were drawn). If Tolkien had developed any of those old maps he could have put an Isle of Unicorns off the coast of Harad.

Not that I think he would have, but he could have Tongue


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 12:25pm

Post #61 of 73 (2108 views)
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Flawed Logic [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"No, certainly not a river named the Nile."

Then you can't have West Nile virus...


Again, you are putting the cart before the horse. The virus can (and did) exist before it was given a name. We can have the West Nile virus if there is no such region as the West Nile, we would just be calling it by a different name. The fact that we would be calling it something else does not change the nature of the virus. Let's not get hung up on semantics and nomenclature, shall we?

I do agree that the virus in its present form would not have existed in Middle-earth (estimated at approximately 6000 years ago for the end of the Third Age). Happy?

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 11 2017, 12:27pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 1:08pm

Post #62 of 73 (2090 views)
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A word of advice. [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't feed the troll.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 1:19pm

Post #63 of 73 (2086 views)
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It could be worse. [In reply to] Can't Post

I could be arguing with Wizzardly!

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 11 2017, 1:21pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 1:24pm

Post #64 of 73 (2082 views)
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Actually you'd be surprised. [In reply to] Can't Post

You ever hear of sock puppets?

I think more than one time on this thread someone's been talking to themselves.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 1:42pm

Post #65 of 73 (2067 views)
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puppetry [In reply to] Can't Post

wrong if you think I have two accounts.

And Otaku, this thread began as an obvious troll...

It's supposed to be silly or mostly so. Again silly me... even after I stated it outright that it was all in fun I _foolishly_ thought further posts _to me at least_ would join in in spirit (just for fun) or not at all.

I guess I was wrong again. See my perils of posting post.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 1:46pm

Post #66 of 73 (2059 views)
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It's not that I can't get silly... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I often do. I often can't completely ignore the more serious side of a question--even when it's not meant that way. Besides, not knowing if you were familiar with The Shaping of Middle-earth, I though you might enjoy seeing Tolkien's conception of Arda as a whole.

I do think that Karen Wynn Fonstad could have been more playful in The Atlas of Middle-earth with her illustration of Arda in the Third Age. She could have used the Change of the World as an excuse to reshape the Dark Lands a bit (forming the basis for Antarctica and Australia) and perhaps extend the lands of the East.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 11 2017, 1:53pm)


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 1:50pm

Post #67 of 73 (2048 views)
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nomenclature [In reply to] Can't Post

"The fact that we would be calling it something else does not change the nature of the virus. Let's not get hung up on semantics and nomenclature, shall we?"

If the nature of the virus doesn't change, then why call it something else? By the way, wizardly posted in the spirit of the thread, complete with ba dum tss.

ba dum tss.

Edit: No problem Smile

Didn't see your last post before I posted this.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Aug 11 2017, 1:53pm)


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 1:57pm

Post #68 of 73 (2040 views)
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No problem [In reply to] Can't Post

To get a bit more serious, I actually do have some reservations about Tolkien's maps from this time, generally speaking, but that said, you may very well be correct about his intentions, at some point, with the south.

I am of the opinion that Tolkien, late in life but fairly consistently, reimagined the flat earth idea as a Mannish Myth, for instance.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Aug 11 2017, 1:58pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 1:57pm

Post #69 of 73 (2037 views)
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Because...reasons! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If the nature of the virus doesn't change, then why call it something else?


Because we felt like it, that's why! A doctor liked the name Uganda fever better.


In Reply To
I am of the opinion that Tolkien, late in life but fairly consistently, reimagined the flat earth idea as a Mannish Myth, for instance.


That would work better with actual history. But, Middle-earth isn't quite meant to be taken strictly as history. Wink I can easily imagine the other continents to be present all along, with Valinor still being magically removed from the (not flat) World by the actions of Eru. I also imagine a very, very long period (billions of years) between the creation of Arda and the awakening of the Elves. We might also assume the time of stars and no Sun to be a myth.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 11 2017, 2:07pm)


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 2:03pm

Post #70 of 73 (2033 views)
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warning. this is not a Dougless post [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, that makes sense actually, people are often doing felt-like-it stuff (especially Doug Heffernan). No argument then.

Truth be told... I actually learned something about West Nile in this thread!

Smile


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 2:22pm

Post #71 of 73 (2029 views)
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No Sun stuff [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
" We might also assume the time of stars and no Sun to be a myth."


I think JRRT included this as as Mannish Myth too (although the Trees still existed and gave light), along with the former prophecy of Mandos, which could be something given to Andreth for example (my total guess regarding Andreth there).

You probably know, but the Awakening of the Quendi agrees with the Sun existing before the Elves awoke... granted it is intended in style to be an Elvish fairy-tale mixed with counting lore, but it's noted as an Elvish tale nonetheless (which makes sense in any case)...

... rather than a mixed or mannish tale.

I can't think of anything silly to add though.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 11 2017, 2:29pm

Post #72 of 73 (2017 views)
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Yep. [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that it gets very messy when we start considering the Two Trees and the Silmarils in the context of real-world history (and astronomy for that matter). We don't need those headaches!

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor


Elthir
Grey Havens

Aug 11 2017, 3:10pm

Post #73 of 73 (2017 views)
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note [In reply to] Can't Post

By the way, I don't imagine my characterization has to be the characterization for this or any thread, but that's the way I took it from the start (and so on, as said)...

... and I don't always remember to put an "IMO" in every post, or somewhere. Anyway.

My apologies to the Heffernan and Spooner families.

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