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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
I have a movie question about The Return of the King

kdrevette
Registered User


Jul 24 2017, 3:13am

Post #1 of 11 (3717 views)
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I have a movie question about The Return of the King Can't Post

I just watched "The Return of the King" again. One thing has always bothered me about the movie. Peter Jackson completely missed the point that The Ring was responsible for it's own destruction. The curse it laid on Gollum was unleashed when he took The Ring from Frodo. That was why the agile and sure-footed creature "stumbled" into the Fires of Doom in the first place. When he wailed "Precious!" as he fell, it was accusatory. Not a wail of despair. Even Peter Jackson saw the book version as anti-climactic, and so had Frodo and Gollum wrestling for The Ring to explain how he fell in. I don't think he picked up on the curse. If I may quote from the book;


Quote
"...Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice."
"Begone and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom."


That was The Ring speaking directly to Gollum. It laid the curse on him. To be cast into the Fire of Doom if he touched it again. So when he bit off Frodo's finger and took The Ring, the curse was unleashed. At least that's how I understood it. Just losing his footing simply didn't cut it. But The Movie didn't even mention the Wheel of Fire or The Ring speaking. I was on the edge of my seat waiting for it when I first saw the movie. I was expecting maybe a quick flashback to The Ring speaking the curse, and then Gollum falling into the lava, or something like that. But it just never came! It's always irked me. Am I missing something??

PS; I first read The Trilogy in high school. I've read it six times since (I'm 63). I didn't pick up on the Wheel of Fire speech to explain Gollum's clumsiness until the third read though. But then it all made sense. He was, essentially, shoved!


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 24 2017, 6:05pm

Post #2 of 11 (3589 views)
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I had not heard that theory before, [In reply to] Can't Post

about the Ring being responsible for its own destruction. Very interesting, and I would love to see that explored further in the Reading Room.

The movies took at different approach to the Ring and its hold on Frodo and Gollum. Andy Serkis talked about the Ring being an addiction, and he shaped his performance around the idea that Gollum was addicted to the Ring and would do anything to get it back. The destruction of the Ring was the result of Gollum's addiction leading to his own self-destruction and he took the Ring with him.

I don't agree with the movie interpretation of the Ring's influence, but at least the performances of Elijah Wood and Andy Serkis were consistent and faithful to Peter Jackson's treatment.


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jul 24 2017, 6:25pm

Post #3 of 11 (3589 views)
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I've heard that explanation before [In reply to] Can't Post

And think there might be something to it. But it seems like it would be difficult to present on screen in a compelling way. IMHO, Jackson's interpretation makes for a more dramatic cinematic story.






kdrevette
Registered User


Jul 25 2017, 6:23pm

Post #4 of 11 (3494 views)
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Okay [In reply to] Can't Post

It just seemed too important to the plot to simply leave out. At least in my mind.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 2 2017, 1:30am

Post #5 of 11 (3335 views)
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Fascinating... [In reply to] Can't Post

It always rocks my book world when I think of the changes in the story for the filmic tale.

The way I take what Jackson did with the film(s) is that the story is about Frodo's journey. Its the "spine" of the film as described by Philippa Boyens in the EEDVD Commentaries.
To change the focus from the impact of the Ring on Frodo to the impact on Gollum would have shifted the story.


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Loresilme
Valinor


Aug 6 2017, 1:21pm

Post #6 of 11 (3111 views)
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Fascinating [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote
"...Out of the fire there spoke a commanding voice."
"Begone and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom."


That was The Ring speaking directly to Gollum. It laid the curse on him. To be cast into the Fire of Doom if he touched it again.



************************

I have never heard that interpretation before! It's really got me thinking. I would love to read more about this. I hope it is discussed further here on these boards.

And welcome to TORn, kdrevette! Looking forward to chatting with you :).






dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 14 2017, 10:41pm

Post #7 of 11 (2865 views)
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That's a really interesting idea.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't come across it before. I've always thought the voice was Frodo, commanding Gollum through the power of the Ring as he did earlier in the story. Shal have to go away and think about that now!

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Aug 15 2017, 3:21am

Post #8 of 11 (2863 views)
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It's been debated in the Reading Room. [In reply to] Can't Post

More than once--in regard to the book not the movie, I mean, as to whether the voice is the Ring's or Frodo's (or neither).

See this thread, for instance, from almost a year ago.

And in a week or two, it will probably be debated again there; an "unofficial" discussion of Book VI just started.

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sador
Half-elven


Aug 15 2017, 4:14am

Post #9 of 11 (2849 views)
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It is now! [In reply to] Can't Post

The last response is from six days ago. kdrevette actually posted it there, after the replies in this thread were unencouraging..

http://newboards.theonering.net/...931452=View+Threaded


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Aug 15 2017, 5:39am

Post #10 of 11 (2841 views)
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Sorry for the bad link. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks to squire to alerting me to what my fumbling fingers had done.

Here is the correct link to last year's discussion.

(And prior to sador's post, I didn't even notice that this thread was more than three weeks old.)

There are four lights.

-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
How to find old Reading Room discussions.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 17 2017, 3:59am

Post #11 of 11 (2671 views)
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There's a book? [In reply to] Can't Post

Who knew?

Tongue

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire

 
 

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