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Fun interactive map of Middle-earth

zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jul 7 2017, 2:00am

Post #1 of 10 (1616 views)
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Fun interactive map of Middle-earth Can't Post

A linguistics page I follow on Facebook posted this today; I thought it was fun and interesting. Some of the locations are more detailed, but still a lot of good info.

Be forewarned though, this map is difficult to back out of. You can't just hit back arrow, have to close tab to get back.

http://lotrproject.com/...n=1500&layers=BTTTTT






(This post was edited by zarabia on Jul 7 2017, 2:10am)


squire
Half-elven


Jul 7 2017, 2:24am

Post #2 of 10 (1589 views)
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Very nicely done [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems unnecessary to put "T.A." in front of all the dates, when almost all of them are, naturally, from the Third Age.

Speaking of Second Age geography, I didn't think that Tolkien ever specified just where the capital city of Eregion, Ost-in-Edhel, was. This map puts it in a specific location. Is there a reference for this placement somewhere in the vast, vast literature?



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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 7 2017, 2:46am

Post #3 of 10 (1584 views)
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Ost-in-Edhel [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe that there is a speculative element involved in the given location for Ost-in-Edhel. However, that seems like a reasonable guess. the Middle-earth Role Play (MERP) game placed the city in more-or-less the same place. The interactive map also matches up pretty well with the location given in the Rivendell sourcebook for The One Ring Roleplaying Game.

I have seen this map before, but it's been a while since anyone has linked to it from here.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 7 2017, 3:01am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 7 2017, 7:08pm

Post #4 of 10 (1530 views)
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Ost-in-Edhil (revisited) [In reply to] Can't Post

From The Silmarillion, "Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age":


Quote
Only in Eregion, which Men called Hollin, did Elves of Noldorin race establish a lasting realm beyond the Ered Luin. Eregion was nigh to the great mansions of the Dwarves that were named Khazad-dm, but by the Elves Hadhodrond, and afterwards Moria. From Ost-in-Edhil, the city of the Elves, the highroad ran to the west gate of Khazad-dm, for a friendship arose between Dwarves and Elves, such as never elsewhere been, to the enrichment of both those peoples.


Tolkien does not reveal precisely where the city is built, but where the Sirannon ('Gate Stream') joins with the Glanduin to become the Greyflood, about halfway between Tharbad and Moria, seems to be as good a place as any. Unfinished Tales reveals a little more about Ost-in-Edhil; in his follow-up to the "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" Christopher Tolkien notes:


Quote
The building of the chief city of Eregion, Ost-in-Edhil, was begun in about the year 750 of the Second Age [the date that is given in the Tale of Years for the founding of Eregion by the Noldor].


But, again, there is nothing more specific about the site of Ost-in-Edhil.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 7 2017, 7:09pm)


squire
Half-elven


Jul 7 2017, 8:17pm

Post #5 of 10 (1524 views)
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I think you have it, as far as it goes. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just taking the attitude that "as good a place as any" has no business putting cities on Tolkien's map that he never took the time to locate, when he took a lot of time and thought to put places on his maps exactly where he wanted them to be.

Of course, part of the question has to do with who the map is being sold to, and for what purposes. Fan fiction and gaming versions of Tolkien have their charms, as does the films' slightly distorted geography, and of course all have their fans - including those who won't read the books in any case. But most of this map is solidly based on the author's own work, which was of course extensively map-based. A casual user might well believe that the ancient Elven city of smiths was exactly where it's shown to be in the same sense that Bag End, Rivendell, and Barad-dur were. An asterisk and small hyperlinked footnote would be in order, I suggest.



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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 7 2017, 8:54pm

Post #6 of 10 (1518 views)
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The Highroad [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, the river(s) give Ost-in-Edhil a water source and the location shown on the interactive map is central to the region. There are notes on Tolkien's annotated map, found in the possession of Pauline Baynes, that might relate to Ost-in-Edhil. Perhaps this is the source for the location of the city, though it doesn't seem to appear on her own map of Middle-earth.

On a related note, do you think that the highroad that connected Ost-in-Edhil and Khazad-dm might have continued westward, around the fens of the Swanfleet, to intersect with the Old North-South Road and Tharbad? I can't think of a good reason why it shouldn't have done so unless neither Tharbad nor the North-South Road had yet been constructed.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 7 2017, 9:07pm)


squire
Half-elven


Jul 7 2017, 10:13pm

Post #7 of 10 (1502 views)
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I think it's very likely [In reply to] Can't Post

However, the entire 'road' question in Middle-earth opens up the can of worms of just where the people, the economy, the empires, etc. are in such a rich and fertile continental landmass.

Once we accept Tolkien's idea that Middle-earth's political economy follows a kind of moral, rather than material, imperative I think all bets are off in any number of geographic and historical speculations. We might say "surely there would be a road here" or "surely there would be a city here" but we would also want to say "surely there would be, frankly, people here", and there aren't. In many cases, apparently, there never have been.

This kind of thinking, remembering that this is a story in a highly imagined world (Europe not in a different time, as Tolkien put it, but in a different "state of imagination"), is why I am relatively stringent about not trying to second-guess Tolkien for fan-fiction or 'extended-play' scenarios. The fundamentals are too different, despite some superficial similarities to places and clear borrowings from history and literature.



squire online:
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Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 7 2017, 11:03pm

Post #8 of 10 (1499 views)
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Eregion and Eastern Eriador [In reply to] Can't Post

The more I think about it, I'm not sure that Tharbad would have existed yet in the seventeen century of the Second Age. And the North-South Road through Eriador, if it existed at all yet, might have been little more than a path. Once I thought about it, I came to realize that the betrayal of "Annatar" and the destruction of Ost-in-Edhil was what prompted Elrond to found Imladris and establish the Councils of the Wise (reformed in the Third Age as the White Council with the addition of the Istari).

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall. -- The Doctor


Donry
Tol Eressea


Jul 10 2017, 9:51pm

Post #9 of 10 (1398 views)
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I like it... [In reply to] Can't Post

Seems like quite the project.

What's the matter, James? No glib remark? No pithy comeback?"

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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jul 11 2017, 4:34pm

Post #10 of 10 (1364 views)
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This is wonderful! [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember seeing it long ago, but never had time to really look at it. I can't wait to compare some of their timeline with my TIMEline ;) Thanks so much!



sample

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