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Seasons of the Year in the New Reckoning of Gondor

Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 15 2017, 4:07am

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Seasons of the Year in the New Reckoning of Gondor Can't Post

It is my understanding that under the Stewards' Reckoning, the seasons in Gondor were codified so that they were all about the same length, with the beginning of the year falling at midwinter coinciding approximately with the winter solstice, and mid-year coinciding approximately with the summer solstice at midsummer.

The New Reckoning began the year on the day of YestarŽ (also the day of the Fall of Sauron) or March 15 in the Shire Reckoning. From this I think we can deduce how the seasons were counted in Gondor from the start of the Fourth Age:

Sping: YestarŽ to 30 NŠriŽ (March 25 to June 25, S.R.)
Summer: 1 CermiŽ to LoŽndŽ or Mid-year's Day (June 26 to September 24, S.R.)
Autumn: 2 EnderŽ to 30 RingarŽ (September 25 to December 25, S.R.)
Winter: 1 NarvinyŽ to MettarŽ (December 26 to March 24, S.R.)

My source for dates was Tolkien Gateway: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/New_Reckoning.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 15 2017, 4:08am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 16 2017, 1:50am

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The Seasons in the North [In reply to] Can't Post

In the North of Middle-earth, the reckoning of the seasons seems to be a bit more fluid. Before adopting and adapting the King's Reckoning of Gondor, the Hobbits shared many of the traditions of the Men of Rhovanion, including their names for the days of the week and their reckoning of the seasons. The summer and winter solstices and the vernal and autumnal equinoxes played important parts in tracking the seasons.

Before the founding of the Shire, the Hobbits began the new year on the first day of the month of Blotmanth (November). Midwinter (Yule) roughly coincided with the winter solstice, observed during the Yuledays falling between Foreyule (December) and Afteryule (January). Winters were long in the North; the season seems to have formally ended with the end of the month of Solmath (February).

The spring months seem to have been Rethe, Astron and Thrimidge (March, April and May). The date of 15 Thrimidge might have marked the start of summer (though it might be that the springs in the North lasted to the end of Thrimidge.

Summers in the North might have been as short as the winters were long. The principal months of the season were Forelithe (June) and Afterlithe (July), though the summer warmth probably lasted well into the month of Wedmath (August). Midsummer was marked by the Lithedays (1 Lithe, Mid-year's Day and 2 Lithe with the day of Overlithe following Mid-year's Day on leap years) between the end of June and the beginning of July, approximately coinciding with the summer solstice.

Autumn might have encompassed all of the months of Wedmath, Halimath and Winterfilth (August, September and October), though perhaps not all of Wedmath. Winterfilth (called Wintring in Bree) was originally considered by the Hobbits and the Men of the North to be the last month of the year, literally the month of making final preparations for the winter.

Seasons in the North of Middle-earth
Winter: 1 Blotmath to 30 Solmath (November 1 to February 30)
Spring: 1 Rethe to 30 Thrimadge (March 1 to May 30)
Summer: 1 Forelithe to 30 Afterlithe (June 1 to July 30)
Autumn: 1 Wedmath to 30 Winterfilth (August 1 to October 30)

So, am I overlooking any clues in the texts that would modify these dates? Maybe by starting summer sooner or ending it later?

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 16 2017, 3:01am

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Summer in the North [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The spring months seem to have been Rethe, Astron and Thrimidge (March, April and May). The date of 15 Thrimidge might have marked the start of summer (though it might be that the springs in the North lasted to the end of Thrimidge.


I had momentarily forgotten about a line in The Hobbit (in Chapter XIX, "The Last Stage") that seems to verify the short northern summer:

Quote
...for now June had brought summer, and the weather was bright and hot again.


If we take the Litheday of Midsummer's Day literally then that would confirm a short season of about 63 days (64 on leap years).

I think that I oversold the significance of the solstices in the North. I don't see any indication of a formal observation of them except from the Elves and the Calendar of Imladris. The vernal solstice can be associated with the beginning of the Elves' New Year, observed on the date of April 6 in TA 3019. The autumnal solstice would very roughly coincide with the Elves' Mid-year's Day.

However, the spring solstice might often have been seen as an auspicious day to begin a journey; by then the snow might have melted in mountain passages such as the High Pass, rendering them usable. I have speculated before that Gandalf and Bilbo probably left Beorn's house on their return to Hobbiton sometime between the start of April and the Elves' New Year. The pair reached Rivendell on May 1.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 16 2017, 3:05am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 17 2017, 4:10pm

Post #4 of 18 (2503 views)
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The Seasons in Various Cultures [In reply to] Can't Post

The Shire Calendar
Winter: 1 Blotmath to 30 Solmath (1 November to 30 February)
Spring: 1 Rethe to 30 Thrimadge (1 March to 30 May)
Summer: 1 Forelithe to 30 Afterlithe (1 June to 30 July)
Autumn: 1 Wedmath to 30 Winterfilth (1 August to 30 October)

The Steward's Reckoning of Gondor
Winter: YestarŽ ('first-day') to 30 March
Spring: TuilťrŽ ('spring-day') to 30 June
Summer: LoŽndŽ ('year-middle-day') to 30 September
Autumn: YŠviťrŽ ('autumn-day') to mettarŽ ('last-day)

The New Reckoning of Gondor
Spring: YestarŽ*, followed by 1 April to 30 June
Summer: 1 July to 30 September, followed by 1 Enderi ('middle-day') and LoŽndŽ**
Autumn: 2 Enderi ('middle-day'), followed by 1 October to 30 December
Winter: 1 January to 30 March, followed by MettarŽ

* The New Year's Day of the New Reckoning fell on the old-style date of 25 March.

** In honor of Frodo, 30 September (which corresponded with former 22 September, his birthday) was made a festival, and the leap year was provided for by doubling this feast, called CormarŽ or Ringday.

If you don't mind, the Calendar of Imladris (the Elven Calendar of Rivendell) is complicated and I'm leaving it alone. I will note that the Elves observed six seasons: tuilŽ (spring), lairŽ (summer), yŠviŽ (autumn), quellŽ (fading), hrŪvŽ (winter) and coirŽ (stirring).

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 17 2017, 4:19pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 17 2017, 10:33pm

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The Calendar of Imladris [In reply to] Can't Post

The long-lived Elves also took a long view with the passage of time. Tolkien noted that the Quenya word yťn, usually translated as 'year', represented a period of 144 solar years. A 'day' of the sun they called , reckoned from sunset to sunset. The yťn consisted of 52,596 days. The Eldar observed a week of six days, called an enquiŽ; the yťn contained 8,766 of these enquier.

The Elves in Middle-earth also observed a solar year, called a coranar ('sun-round') when considered astronomically, but usually called a loa (meaning 'growth') in terms of seasonal changes in vegetation, especially in the north-western lands. The loa was divided into periods that could be considered to be either long months or short seasons. In the Calendar of Imladris there were six of these 'seasons', known by the Quenya names of tuilŽ , lairŽ, yŠviŽ, quellŽ, hrŪvŽ and coirŽ, translated as spring, summer, autumn, fading, winter and stirring. The Sindarin names were ethuil, laer, iavas, firith, rhÓw and echuir. 'Fading' was also called lasse-lanta 'leaf-fall', or in Sindarin narbeleth 'sun-waning'.

LairŽ and hrŪvŽ each had 72 days. and the remaining seasons had 54 days each. The loa began with the stand-alone day of yestarŽ immediately before tuilŽ , and ended with mettarŽ, the day immediately after coirŽ. Between yŠviŽ and quellŽ were three enderi or 'middle-days', providing a year of 365 days, supplemented by doubling the enderi (adding 3 days) in every twelfth year.

The Calendar of Imladris
yestarŽ ('first-day'; 1 day)
tuilŽ (spring; 54 days)
lairŽ (summer; 72 days)
yŠviŽ (autumn; 54 days)
enderi ('middle-days'; 3 days, 6 days every twelfth year)
quellŽ (fading, 54 days)
hrŪvŽ (winter; 72 days)
coirŽ (stirring; 54 days)
mettarŽ ('last-day'; 1 day)

Of the Dwarves, we don't have enough information on their customs and practices to make more than guesses about their calendar(s).

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 17 2017, 10:35pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jun 26 2017, 2:40pm

Post #6 of 18 (2338 views)
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August is late-summer in the North? [In reply to] Can't Post

There is textual evidence in LotR that the season of Summer in the Shire lasted through August.The essay "Durin's Folk" in Appendix A informs us that it was late-summer, after Gandalf had left the Company of Thorin Oakenshield at the Eaves of MIrkwood, that he "had at last prevailed upon Saruman and the White Council to attack Dol Guldur. We also learn in The Hobbit that it was about the same time that the company reached Lake-town that Gandalf was finishing up his business in the South.

The company must have entered Mirkwood late in July, meaning that Gandalf must have met with the White Council sometime in August. It might be that midsummer (the second Litheday between the end of June and the start of July), as reckoned by the hobbits, did not fall in the literal middle of their summer but somewhat earlier.

Seasons by the Reckoning of the Hobbits (revised)
Winter: 1 Blotmath to 30 Solmath (1 November to 30 February)
Spring: 1 Rethe to 30 Thrimadge (1 March to 30 May)
Summer: 1 Forelithe to 30 Wedmath (1 June to 30 August)*
Autumn: 1 Halimath to 30 Winterfilth (1 September to 30 October)

* Midsummer coincides with the summer solstice, not with the middle of the season as determined by calendar dates.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jul 18 2017, 4:18am

Post #7 of 18 (2017 views)
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*mods up* Very Impressive! :D [In reply to] Can't Post

What a great collection of Middle-earth seasons!

I've often wondered why the Shire adapted more to Rohan than Gondor when it came to their calendar. You'd think with the history of the King ruling (potentially) over the Shire that it would reflect in their calendar.

Seasons in the north used a 30-day month. What a brilliant idea! More uniformed. I don't understand why our modern-day calendar has to be so inconsistent... 31 here, 28 there (sometimes). Wups! There ARE a few 30-day months there!


Quote

"So, am I overlooking any clues in the texts that would modify these dates? Maybe by starting summer sooner or ending it later?"



I checked around and couldn't come up with anymore clues... but I'll keep an eye open for some. Nice catch on the June reference in The Hobbit and matching it with Midsummer's Day. Journeys certainly did seem to start most often in the Spring and Fall.

From Seasons in Various Cultures:

Quote

If you don't mind, the Calendar of Imladris (the Elven Calendar of Rivendell) is complicated and I'm leaving it alone.



*giggle* Oh... I don't mind at all!!!

Well done! *cuts, pastes* The Good Professor, I'm thinking, loved working on his Calendars as they're so detailed, but incomplete in some ways; which tells me he wasn't finished ;)

THANKS!



TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit

(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Jul 18 2017, 4:19am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 18 2017, 6:43am

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Hobbits, Dwarves and the Men of the North [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, the 30-day month seems to have come from the Nķmenůreans and the Kings' Reckoning. I am using it because the only calendar of Middle-earth that Tolkien introduced to us that does not use it is the Elves' Calendar of Imladris. Before the Hobbits came to Eriador they probably had a different reckoning of the months, probably based on the reckoning of the Men of Wilderland. The Men of Lake-town and Dale would have probably used a similar calendar.

The Dwarves of Moria (and later Erebor and the Iron Hills) might have used a similar calendar. The Dwarves did start their new year at about the same time as the pre-Eriador Hobbits, in the case of the Dwarves: after the last new moon of autumn which marked the beginning of winter.

As for us, we don't like to have days that fall outside of the months, so we don't consistently have months of 30 days.

I'm not sure that the Shire Reckoning has any close similarity to the Calendar of Rohan as I don't recall Tolkien covering the traditional reckoning of the Rohirrim. Still, the ancestors of the Horse-lords did for a long time dwell in the vales of the Anduin, so they could have counted the seasons in a similar manner.

As you can see, I did end up covering the Calendar of Imladris after all, just a few posts down from the original one.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.Ē -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 18 2017, 6:44am)


Murlo
Rivendell


Dec 6 2017, 3:40pm

Post #9 of 18 (1350 views)
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Check out the Calendars chapter of The Peoples of Middle-earth [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you checked out "The Peoples of Middle-earth" (HoME vol.XII) yet? The chapter on "The Calendars" includes a chart Tolkien created comparing an early version of the New Reckoning with dates in the Shire and Stewards' Reckoning, but it also includes the name of the season associated with various months!

Since the New Reckoning is only in advance of the Shire Reckoning by about a week, I would think these seasons might also apply to the Shire, Kings', and Stewards' Reckoning as well:

Spring: April, May (VŪressŽ, LůtessŽ or Astron, Thrimidge)
Summer: June, July, August (NŠriŽ, CermiŽ, UrimŽ or Forelithe, Afterlithe, Wedmath)
Autumn: September, October (YavanniŽ, NarqueliŽ or Halimath, Winterfilth)
Winter: November, December, January (HŪsimŽ, RingarŽ, NarvinyŽ or Blotmath, Foreyule, Afteryule)
Stirring: February, March (NťnimŽ, SķlimŽ or Solmath, Rethe)

Before I recently read this chapter of "The Peoples of Middle-earth", I assumed the Hobbits observed the traditional 4 seasons more symmetricly around the Shire Calendar. So I also thought the start of summer would have been the middle of May (Thrimidge) and the start of autumn would have been the middle of August (Wedmath).


I think this chart predates the Calendar of Imladris as published in Appendix D, but note how it matches the seasons (or "long months") of the Reckoning of Rivendell, except for the season of "Fading" between Autumn and Winter.

If we align the Calendar of Imladris so that its New Year's Day (YestarŽ) is aligned with the Shire 'April' (Astron) 6, as it was in T.A. 3019 according to Appendix B, then the seasons of that calendar align with the Shire Calendar like this (assuming it's not a leap-year in either calendar):

Spring (TuilŽ): April (Astron) 7 - May (Thrimidge) 30
Summer (LairŽ): June (Forelithe) 1 - August (Wedmath) 9
Autumn (YŠviŽ): August (Wedmath) 10 - October (Winterfilth) 3
Fading (QuellŽ): October (Winterfilth) 7 - November (Blotmath) 30
Winter (HrŪvŽ): December (Foreyule) 1 - February (Solmath) 10
Stirring (CoirŽ): February (Solmath) 11 - April (Astron) 4

By the way, you can visualize this alignment with my Shire Reckoning project's Middle-earth calendar simulations, since the calendars on that page default to T.A. 3019 on Shire 'April' (Astron) 6.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 6 2017, 7:57pm

Post #10 of 18 (1341 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Have you checked out "The Peoples of Middle-earth" (HoME vol.XII) yet? The chapter on "The Calendars" includes a chart Tolkien created comparing an early version of the New Reckoning with dates in the Shire and Stewards' Reckoning, but it also includes the name of the season associated with various months!


I don't own a copy of The Peoples of Middle-earth (yet), though I have read excerpts from it. It's good to know about the additional material.


In Reply To
Since the New Reckoning is only in advance of the Shire Reckoning by about a week, I would think these seasons might also apply to the Shire, Kings', and Stewards' Reckoning as well:

Spring: April, May (VŪressŽ, LůtessŽ or Astron, Thrimidge)
Summer: June, July, August (NŠriŽ, CermiŽ, UrimŽ or Forelithe, Afterlithe, Wedmath)
Autumn: September, October (YavanniŽ, NarqueliŽ or Halimath, Winterfilth)
Winter: November, December, January (HŪsimŽ, RingarŽ, NarvinyŽ or Blotmath, Foreyule, Afteryule)
Stirring: February, March (NťnimŽ, SķlimŽ or Solmath, Rethe)

Before I recently read this chapter of "The Peoples of Middle-earth", I assumed the Hobbits observed the traditional 4 seasons more symmetricly around the Shire Calendar. So I also thought the start of summer would have been the middle of May (Thrimidge) and the start of autumn would have been the middle of August (Wedmath).


According to LotR Appendix D, the Hobbits of the Shire do seem to observe four seasons even if they are not all of the same length.


Quote
A few other names may be mentioned that have a reference to time, though not used in precise reckonings. The seasons usually named were tuilŽ spring, lairŽ summer, yŠviŽ autumn (or harvest), hrŪvŽ winter, but these had no exact definitions, and quellŽ (or lasselanta) was also used for the latter part of autumn and the beginning of winter.


The Hobbits don't seem to have observed the Stirring (coirŽ, nor did they apparently observe the Fading (quellŽ) as a separate season. If The Peoples of Middle-earth indicates otherwise, we might have to dismiss that as superseded by Appendix D.

My reading suggests that the Stewards' Reckoning of Gondor standardized their seasons so that they observed four seasons (spring, summer, autumn and winter) all of three months in length. I am reasonably certain that the five holidays outside of the months (yestarŽ, tuilťrŽ, loŽndŽ, yŠviťrŽ, and mettarŽ) fall between those seasons.

Stewards' Reckoning
yestarŽ (First Day)
Winter: January, February, March (NarvinyŽ, NťnimŽ, SķlimŽ)
tuilťrŽ (Spring Day)
Spring: April, May, June (VŪressŽ, LůtessŽ, NŠriŽ)
loŽndŽ (Midyear's Day)
Summer: July, August, September (CermiŽ, UrimŽ, YavanniŽ)
yŠviťrŽ (Autumn Day)
Autumn: October, November December (NarqueliŽ, HŪsimŽ, RingarŽ)
mettarŽ (Last Day)

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Murlo
Rivendell


Dec 7 2017, 7:26am

Post #11 of 18 (1325 views)
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Good point. What about mid-spring or mid-autumn? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
According to LotR Appendix D, the Hobbits of the Shire do seem to observe four seasons even if they are not all of the same length.


Quote
A few other names may be mentioned that have a reference to time, though not used in precise reckonings. The seasons usually named were tuilŽ spring, lairŽ summer, yŠviŽ autumn (or harvest), hrŪvŽ winter, but these had no exact definitions, and quellŽ (or lasselanta) was also used for the latter part of autumn and the beginning of winter.



Thanks for bringing that quote to my attention. I had forgotten about that passage.


In Reply To
The Hobbits don't seem to have observed the Stirring (coirŽ, nor did they apparently observe the Fading (quellŽ) as a separate season. If The Peoples of Middle-earth indicates otherwise, we might have to dismiss that as superseded by Appendix D.


I agree that Appendix D would supersede anything in The Peoples of Middle-earth. In this case, that chart I referred to was primarily associating those seasons with the months of the early version of the New Reckoning, and the Shire and Stewards' Reckoning dates appeared to be a separate comparison to the New Reckoning dates of that chart.


In Reply To
My reading suggests that the Stewards' Reckoning of Gondor standardized their seasons so that they observed four seasons (spring, summer, autumn and winter) all of three months in length. I am reasonably certain that the five holidays outside of the months (yestarŽ, tuilťrŽ, loŽndŽ, yŠviťrŽ, and mettarŽ) fall between those seasons.


I always assumed that TuilťrŽ and YŠviťrŽ were the middle of spring and autumn. Similar to the way Midyear's Day (LoŽndŽ) was also referred to as Midsummer and the New Year (Yule or YestarŽ) as Midwinter, I thought TuilťrŽ might be referred to as Midspring and YŠviťrŽ as Midautumn. That still wouldn't tell us when they would have observed the start of those seasons, and if that chart in The Peoples of Middle-earth is any indication, the seasons may not have been symmetric around those holidays.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 7 2017, 2:31pm

Post #12 of 18 (1304 views)
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The Seasons and the Stewards' Reckoning [In reply to] Can't Post

My thoughts around the observance of the seasons in Gondor are largely influenced by its climate. Being more southerly than the other lands of north-western Middle-earth, Gondor under the ruling Stewards might have equated the start of winter with the beginning of the new year, and the changing of the seasons in general with the coming of the solstices and equinoxes, much as we have come to do in modern times. Symbolically, this would set the reign of the stewards apart by breaking from the traditions held in the times of the kings. I suspect, though I don't know this for a fact, that this was Tolkien's thinking on the subject.

Now, if you are correct and the Men of Gondor, under the Revised Calendar of Mardil the Steward, continued to begin the new year at mid-winter then you would also be correct in thinking that they observed the start of the seasons in the middle of the appropriate months: spring at mid-February; summer at mid-May; autumn at mid-August; and winter at mid-November. It's just that the adoption of the days tuilťrŽ and yŠviťrŽ suggest otherwise to me.

I admit that I wish that Tolkien had covered the seasons of Middle-earth in just a little more depth! Evil

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Murlo
Rivendell


Dec 7 2017, 3:29pm

Post #13 of 18 (1294 views)
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"no exact definitions" [In reply to] Can't Post

In light of that Appendix D quote that these seasons "had no exact definitions", in addition to the chart presented in The Peoples of Middle-earth, I'm no longer convinced that the Hobbits or Gondorians observed the seasons as symmetrically as in the Calendar of Imladris.

In fact, the modern summer solstice is also referred to as midsummer, and at the same time it's still considered the start of summer in western cultures. So you're guess that TuilťrŽ and YŠviťrŽ were considered the start of spring and autumn in Gondor could still be correct, even if they were referred to as midspring and midautumn Laugh


In Reply To
I admit that I wish that Tolkien had covered the seasons of Middle-earth in just a little more depth! Evil


Agreed!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 7 2017, 4:40pm

Post #14 of 18 (1288 views)
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The Hobbits vs. Men of the West [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbits were more directly influenced by the traditions of the Men of Rhovanion, where the Nķmenůreans, while sharing the ancestral heritage of the Men of the north-west, represent a more highly and rigidly developed civilization influenced by the Eldar. The Hobbits of the Shire adopted a version of the Kings' Reckoning for their calendar, but their reckoning of the seasons still went back to the years when they dwelt in the Anduin Vales. That, it seems to me, is the difference--though your mileage may vary.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 7 2017, 4:41pm)


Murlo
Rivendell


Dec 8 2017, 3:00pm

Post #15 of 18 (1258 views)
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Seems like "quellŽ" is the same as our "fall" [In reply to] Can't Post

I recalled something I thought of the last time I read this passage:


Quote
A few other names may be mentioned that have a reference to time, though not used in precise reckonings. The seasons usually named were tuilŽ spring, lairŽ summer, yŠviŽ autumn (or harvest), hrŪvŽ winter, but these had no exact definitions, and quellŽ (or lasselanta) was also used for the latter part of autumn and the beginning of winter.


If this does refer to the seasons observed by the Hobbits (I was never quite sure since it's set off in its own section, although it does immediately follow discussion of the Hobbit names for days of the week), then I think this is another indication that they considered the start of winter sometime between 'November' 1 and 'December' 1 (i.e. between Blothmath 1 and Foreyule 1).

Since quellŽ seems to be equivalent to our season of "fall" (as you pointed out earlier lasselanta translates to "leaf-fall"), which would mean quellŽ occurs between the autumnal equinox and winter solstice, and that would have been from sometime near the start of 'October' (Winterfilth) to around Year's End (1 Yule) in the Shire Calendar; also between YŠviťrŽ (Autumn-day) and MettarŽ (Last Day) in the Stewards' Reckoning, but once again I can't be sure if this passage also refers to the seasons observed by the Gondorians, or if your guess is more correct and they simply considered this time of year as autumn.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 8 2017, 3:13pm

Post #16 of 18 (1255 views)
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QuellŽ/lasselanta [In reply to] Can't Post

I would place quellŽ for the Hobbits during the last month of autumn (Winterfilth) and the first month of winter (Blotsmath).

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock


Murlo
Rivendell


Dec 8 2017, 7:02pm

Post #17 of 18 (1230 views)
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The Elvish QuellŽ aligns that way too. [In reply to] Can't Post


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I would place quellŽ for the Hobbits during the last month of autumn (Winterfilth) and the first month of winter (Blotsmath).


Well that is more or less the way the Elvish QuellŽ in the Calendar of Imladris aligned with the Shire Calendar (around the end of the Third Age).


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Dec 10 2017, 7:55am

Post #18 of 18 (1214 views)
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Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post


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Well that is more or less the way the Elvish QuellŽ in the Calendar of Imladris aligned with the Shire Calendar (around the end of the Third Age).


The difference being that the Hobbits incorporated the period of lasselanta into their fall and wintertime instead of reckoning it as a separate season.

"I may be on the side of the angels, but do not think for one second that I am one of them." - Sherlock

 
 

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