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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
May 30 2017, 6:48pm
Post #1 of 61
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Is anyone planning on a reading of "Beren and Luthien?"
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I will be buying the book, though not likely on June 1st - probably have to wait until the 9th. I know there have been group readings here before, so I was just wondering if there'd be one for this book.
I'd say I've entered my second childhood, but I never left the first!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 30 2017, 7:47pm
Post #2 of 61
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Give folks a little time to digest it.
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I've already seen the book available at Barnes & Noble. Was it put on the shelf early?
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor
May 30 2017, 8:23pm
Post #3 of 61
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Amazon.com says June 1st, but maybe that's just them?
I'd say I've entered my second childhood, but I never left the first!
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imin
Valinor
May 30 2017, 9:40pm
Post #4 of 61
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Got my deluxe copy in the post today
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It was meant to come 1st June but I'm glad as now i can take it to the book signing, lol. My standard hardback hasn't arrived yet and neither has the ebook/kindle.
All posts are to be taken as my opinion.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 30 2017, 10:05pm
Post #5 of 61
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Well, this was one, local store. It might have been put out early by mistake.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Ardamírë
Valinor
May 30 2017, 11:22pm
Post #6 of 61
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I got mine at Barnes and noble already
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Sometimes stores do that, so I went and checked, and there it was.
No new content, unfortunately. The preface says as much. Still looking forward to going through it though, but not nearly as much.
The painting of Gorlim is utterly fantastic, though. Probably the best thing to come out of the whole release, imo.
"Behold! the hope of Elvenland,
the fire of Fëanor, Light of Morn
before the sun and moon were born,
thus out of bondage came at last,
from iron to mortal hand it passed." -The Lay of Leithian
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
May 31 2017, 1:33pm
Post #7 of 61
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Is it a expanded form of a tale like ''The Children Of Húrin'' or it's more like a collection of unused manuscripts, like ''The History of Middle-earth'' series?
If it's the latter, unless the content is truly mind-blowing in it's study, then it's a pretty hard disappointment.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 31 2017, 2:07pm
Post #8 of 61
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Is it a expanded form of a tale like ''The Children Of Húrin'' or it's more like a collection of unused manuscripts, like ''The History of Middle-earth'' series?
If it's the latter, unless the content is truly mind-blowing in it's study, then it's a pretty hard disappointment.
This collects all of the previous re-tellings of the tale of Beren and Lúthien, but does not contain any new material other than Christopher Tolkien's notes, introduction, etc.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
May 31 2017, 2:40pm
Post #9 of 61
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But I thought there was only one telling of Beren and Lúthien's tale, namely, that which is in The Silmarillion. What are the others? Or more precisely, in which books are they contained?
(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on May 31 2017, 2:45pm)
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malickfan
Gondor
May 31 2017, 5:33pm
Post #10 of 61
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Alan Lee's illustrations are always a joy to behold and Christopher Tolkien's editorial commentary is sure to be enlightening as ever, but the book just compiles previously published drafts of the story with little to no new content and I'm not sure I'm interested enough to pay for something that collects material I can already read in The Silmarillion or the various HOME books (copies of which I have at home). It will be useful as a reference point, and it was a nice idea to mark the centenary of the stories genesis...but I'm wondering if this approach will backfire and leave a lot of readers cold or dissapointed, The Children Of Hurin was an excellent way to open up the first age to a wider audience and it's a shame this book might not have the same impact.
Personally I'd have been much more excited if this was an expanded novelization of the story as published in The Silmarillion...admittedly the various drafts of the story are so incomplete or divergent in content, pacing and writing style that a novelization would be more a page one rewrite than simply connecting the dots, and that's probably not something Christopher Tolkien felt comfortable or interested in doing, given his age and previous editorial approach to his fathers writing.
I am wondering if A) this will be the last posthumously published Tolkien book and B) Whether Christopher Tolkien's eventual successor as literary executor will take a different approach to any as yet unpublished works should Tolkien's publishers express interest in more projects...
As I understand there is a substantial amount of unpublished writings-mainly poems, letters, writings from Tolkiens academic career, and linguistic material relating to Middle Earth but whether any of this material would find an audience if published is a different discussion for another day...
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 31 2017, 9:36pm
Post #11 of 61
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But I thought there was only one telling of Beren and Lúthien's tale, namely, that which is in The Silmarillion. What are the others? Or more precisely, in which books are they contained?
We have:
1. "The Tale of Tinúviel" (1917) reproduced in The Book of Lost Tales.
2. The unfinished epic poem "The Lay of Leithian" started in the 1920s.
3. The fragment of the Lay that Aragorn recites in The Lord of the Rings.
4. "Of Beren and Lúthien" in the published Silmarillion.
5. A short prose version of the story is found in The Quenta published as part of The Shaping of Middle-earth.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 31 2017, 9:38pm)
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Jun 1 2017, 7:50am
Post #12 of 61
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On page 16 he writes "this is (presumptively) my last book in the long series of editions of my fathers writings,...."
I said on another thread
"It is wonderful to hold the book and know of its deep associations but as Christopher says on page 11. "But this book does not offer a single page of original and unpublished work". He then goes on to discuss why he sees the need for the book".
For me, a gift from my elderly mother, and considering everything this story meant to Mr Tolkien and reflects on the nature of an epic romance in the highly personal sense it is a treasure. As with all works associated with this author we know the world we know the story it is how the journey is made and whether that suits our needs that is key. On this occasion this book suits my needs.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
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priell3
Lorien
Jun 1 2017, 1:19pm
Post #13 of 61
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I will reading it ASAP.
MikeP
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EomundDaughter
Lorien
Jun 1 2017, 2:35pm
Post #14 of 61
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Could this mean a new movie..."Beren and Luthien"??
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If the book is a success, then maybe a movie!!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Jun 1 2017, 3:20pm
Post #15 of 61
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The Tolkien Estate controls the rights
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The Tolkien Estate controls the film rights to all versions of "Beren and Lúthien" outside of the fragment that appears in The Lord of the Ring. So a movie adaptation seems very unlikely.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jun 1 2017, 3:22pm)
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 1 2017, 7:00pm
Post #17 of 61
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It pushes people to think they want one done right (like me).
I always follow my job through.
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Jun 1 2017, 7:01pm
Post #18 of 61
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An experimental play, perhaps?
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The cast repeatedly perform the same story with minor variations...
Godot never turns up
~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
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SirDennisC
Half-elven
Jun 2 2017, 4:09am
Post #19 of 61
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even here, (for instance, me) who have not yet teased the story from it's previously published source(s), who are very thankful for this, perhaps final, publication.
I've enjoyed the first several pages so far and am glad CT (apparently) did not feel the urge to embellish or expand the original tale. His statement that this might be the last one he completes touched me unexpectedly. It left me wondering that if Beren and Luthien are images of his parents (at least, as far as we know, according to his father) where does CT imagine himself in the legendarium, if anywhere?
Yes, I rather like CT in his role of editing, and presenting manuscripts, as others have medieval, or ancient manuscripts -- which JRRT's are fast becoming. As for the professor himself, I would be very interested in knowing if he ever commented on his impressions of 'Tristan and Isolde' (assuming he knew the tale, of course).
(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jun 2 2017, 4:15am)
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Michelle Johnston
Rohan
Jun 2 2017, 7:30am
Post #20 of 61
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I think there is a good deal of symmetry here.
Man is and should be driven to achieve unattainable desires or fleetingly achieved desires.
Because Beren and Luthien is Ronald and Edith it has a unique emotional resonance built into it. Christopher knows this more than anybody and therefore to only provide his fathers words makes a great deal of sense and the book more precious.
Towards the end of his life the professor recognised that he had gone all the way from giving his languages history to giving his history an authenticity that comes out of emotional immediacy. To reframe the material of the Silmarillion around the three great tales was not only an author looking to communicate in the most effective way but an academic finding the root of emotional wisdom. Christopher recasting the most precious of the three stories in the same way is the same journey.
They both had so much to impart one during and one after the professors life the question was how to do that in a way that captures hearts and minds, the world, well JRRT found that through the reaction to "the Lord" and this probably final book mines the same approach.
It is fascinating that both of them began with the history and the back ground but then recognised that intimate mediation is the best way to present things. For that we can thank Bilbo Baggins.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
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wizzardly
Rohan
Jun 2 2017, 2:16pm
Post #21 of 61
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Peter Jackson has already made a mockery of the Hobbit, and based upon the current state of movies, I really think it would be best to leave Tolkien to the realm of literature.
"Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time." -Christopher Tolkien
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Paulo Gabriel
Lorien
Jun 3 2017, 3:35pm
Post #22 of 61
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There are people who think ''LOTR'' is a cinematic masterpiece but there are people (and this I am including only Tolkien, not people who don't take any interest in his worlds/writings) who think the ''LOTR'' movies were a complete mockery of the original novel as well.
So, no matter what PJ did, there would always be people saying he ''ruined'' the book, or books.
based upon the current state of movies, I really think it would be best to leave Tolkien to the realm of literature.
There will always be good movies, no matter what ''age'' we are in. Maybe a few less, maybe a few more, but there always will be good audiovisual art to be found somewhere.
(This post was edited by Paulo Gabriel on Jun 3 2017, 3:40pm)
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Morthoron
Gondor
Jun 3 2017, 5:13pm
Post #23 of 61
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It does one other thing, Squire...
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C. Tolkien is also pushing the copyright on all the stories out for decades. He edited/published The Silmarillion forty years ago in 1977, and now between Beren and Lúthien and The Children of Húrin (not to mention the HoMe series) he has lengthened the copyright status on nearly every aspect of The Sil far out into the foreseeable future.
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Jun 3 2017, 5:20pm
Post #24 of 61
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Christopher Tolkien's lack of tolerance is getting on my nerves, to be honest.
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I always follow my job through.
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Morthoron
Gondor
Jun 3 2017, 5:30pm
Post #25 of 61
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It's his father's literary legacy and he is solely responsible for saving it from inept commercialization, and I am grateful he has offered us his father's cosmology in such a scholarly manner. Not everyone wants to see another silly debacle like The Hobbit movies.
Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.
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