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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 22 2017, 9:17pm
Post #1 of 9
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Tolkien on where the Entwives might have gone.
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On the site Quora ("A place to share knowledge and better understand the world"), a user asked: After Lord of the Rings was there any mention of the entwives? Member Pip Willis responded with a story about his father, who drew his own map of Middle-earth and reportedly was able to personally show it to J.R.R. Tolkien in the year 1971. Willis reports that Tolkien indicated on the map where the Entwives might have settled:
Anyway, at the meeting, my father asked about the Entwives and Tolkien, taking a pencil, marked on the map ‘Here be the Entwives’... Later Dad inked over the pencil marks, keeping the hand-writing style. And I didn’t think much more about it, until I happened to mention the Map to one of my older brothers, who recalled the above anecdote and I realised how significant it may become - or not! Willis' father is still alive and living in Sussex. He took a photo of the relevant part of his map and sent it to Pip.
So below is a very small part of the map. My father inked over JT’s pencil (knowing my father’s hand-writing as I do, I think he went a bit heavy, the only bit which is definitely not his style is the ‘y’ from ‘may’). My father has yet to send a picture of the whole map as apparently the reflection from the glass is too much, so he will have to take the map down and the glass off etc. I know it sounds crazy, but my father did the map in black ink from a rotring pen and then coloured in with felt tip pens! Where he made mistakes he overlaid with new bits of paper and re-drew. It was a pretty big deal in the early ‘70’s! I have to apologise again for my first edit where I wrote ‘East bank’, but at least I have an excuse, as I’m pretty sure that’s what I was told! And, here it is: And here is the link for Quora: https://www.quora.com/...tion-of-the-entwives
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 22 2017, 9:20pm)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 22 2017, 9:31pm
Post #2 of 9
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J.R.R. Tolkien did express some discouraging speculations about the Entwives in his 1954 letter to a Naomi Mitchison (Letter 144, The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien):
I think that in fact the Entwives had disappeared for good, being destroyed with their gardens in the War of the Last Alliance (Second Age 3429 – 3441) when Sauron pursued a scorched earth policy and burned their land against the advance of the Allies down the Anduin... They survived only in the 'agriculture' transmitted to Men (and Hobbits). Some, of course, may have fled east, or even have become enslaved: tyrants even in such tales must have an economic and agricultural background to their soldiers and metalworkers. If any survived so, they would indeed be far estranged from the Ents, and any rapprochement would be difficult -- unless experience of industrialized and militarized agriculture had made them a little more anarchic. I hope so. I don't know. The above does seem to give some support to Tolkien's notation on the elder Willis' map.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 22 2017, 11:56pm
Post #4 of 9
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I would be willing to bet that the memory of Hal's 'tree-man' sighting is what made Pip think that Tolkien had placed the Entwives so close to the Shire.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Yngwulff
Gondor
May 23 2017, 9:34pm
Post #6 of 9
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Were Trolls twisted from Ents by Morgoth?
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
May 23 2017, 9:37pm
Post #7 of 9
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Were Trolls twisted from Ents by Morgoth? That does not seem to be the case, as most Trolls revert to stone in direct sunlight. Tolkien did suggest that Trolls were made in mockery of Ents.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on May 23 2017, 9:39pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
May 24 2017, 8:05pm
Post #8 of 9
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I came across someone in the course of researching something else who told me that he wrote to Tolkien when he was a child asking "is it all real" and had a long letter in reply, which he has always kept. I'm sure you can guess how much I'd like to see it, but my gentle hints had no effect and after all, it is his to show or not, as he likes.
For still there are so many things that I have never seen: in every wood and every spring there is a different green. . .
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NottaSackville
Valinor
May 25 2017, 1:25pm
Post #9 of 9
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Any hope for Treebeard and friends is a good thing. No idea if this is actually provably true or not, but it's Notta-cannon from now on.
Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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