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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Fellowship of The Ring - unofficial read through Part II
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Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 24 2017, 11:09pm

Post #1 of 141 (3260 views)
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Fellowship of The Ring - unofficial read through Part II Can't Post

The Council of Elrond

A very meaty chapter - if somebody wants to kick it off feel free.


sevilodorf
Grey Havens


Apr 25 2017, 12:55am

Post #2 of 141 (3070 views)
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What's that? You say meat's back on the menu... [In reply to] Can't Post

sorry couldn't resist....

A holdover comment from Many Meetings

Frodo spends some time thinking of all the absurd things he did on the journey to Rivendell, but if they had done any of them differently would all the "pieces" needed have been collected? The knife Merry uses on the Witch King came from the Barrows -- Their arrival and time in Bree gets them Aragorn. At Weathertop -- well, that seems to be when they truly stop treating this as a walk through the countryside.

Okay -- on to main course.... Council of Elrond (reread The Martian a few weeks back and find myself chuckling) .....

For pity's sake Balin went off to Moria 30 years ago... why didn't Dain send someone to check on them when they didn't hear word? The North was rather peaceful for years....

Who sent the dream to Faramir then Boromir? (Can't you just visualize the discussion regarding that.
. I sent the message three times.
Well his father won't allow him out of the Kingdom so try the older brother.
But, he's not the one we want. Anyone's better than no one, hurry up or he won't have time to get there.

All the little machinations the Valar had to go through to get all their ducks lined up in a row and then pray they all did their jobs --- A Rube Goldberg type machine....

Saruman - Ring Maker --- what ring did he make? Where did it go?

Poor Frodo -- thought he was done and now they drop it all on him again.

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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 25 2017, 1:38am

Post #3 of 141 (3063 views)
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Speculations [In reply to] Can't Post

When the Dwarves of Erebor lost track of Balin's colony, I imagine that Dain may have sent messengers, then scouts, to Moria only for none of them to return. It is curious that he didn't to more to investigate the mystery.

Saruman might have made many rings, though probably none comparable to the Great Rings. He might have distributed such rings to trusted agents and other servants. From Horse-lords of Rohan for The One Ring Roleplaying Game:


Quote
The Rings of the White Hand
These rings are personally given by Saruman the White to his most trusted servants and allies and more often only to members of the race of Men, though he might possibly offer a Ring of the White Hand to a Dwarf. They appear as narrow bands of silver, set with a small device: a small white hand upon a black field.

Such rings can be considered a Wondrous Artefact possessing one Blessing... This blessing is always tied to one of the following Common Skills: Awe, Persuade, Stealth, Search, Riddle or Courtesy.

However, these rings are also cursed by Shadow-taint, though this curse is not apparent to the wearer (their Shadow score is augmented by 1 point).


"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 25 2017, 6:59pm

Post #4 of 141 (3033 views)
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I think it is interesting that the rift between Elves and Dwarves has been mended [In reply to] Can't Post

somewhat - and BOFA probably led to that.
"Also, we crave the advice of Elrond."

So, Easterlings and/or men under Sauron's influence were set to war upon Dain and Brand.

I am a bit surprised that Sauron would mention the trifling ring - as it seems most people would know he was looking for something of great power if not the missing One Ring. I assume the dwarves are aware of its history....but maybe not. Elrond recounts the tales for everyone. Elrond has one heck of a history and memory.

The relationship between Boromir and Aragorn is much less of an issue than portrayed in the film. Boromir wants Aragorn, it seems, to come to Gondor. "I was not sent to beg any boon, ....Yet we are hard pressed and the Sword of Elendil would be a help beyond our hope.."


noWizardme
Valinor


Apr 25 2017, 8:59pm

Post #5 of 141 (3026 views)
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A few points... [In reply to] Can't Post

What seems like a long and badly chaired meeting, always going off on tangents, is actually a very cunningly contrived chapter.

Tolkien's ability to write speech is impressive. Every character speaks differently (down to Aragorn starting to sound more like Boromir as he tries to win B. over). But everybody speaks comprehensible English - no fake tushery for Tolkien. The chapter would be much harder to follow if this control failed - for example on the several occasions when a speaker recounts at length what someone else said.

Boromir is easily underestimated as a handy messenger to summon Aragorn, and also a handy character to make suggestions that Gandalf can shoot down. The last read through was good at investigating Boromir's agenda and how Tolkien starts building B's character (links to this and all the other read-through chapters in my footer, if anyone wants to link back).

Boromir's epic quest to get there at all doesn't really get the appreciation it deserves, does it?

The moment when Frodo volunteers: plenty to think about for those of us who like to think about how Frodo is both free to choose, and is already chosen.

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 25 2017, 9:43pm

Post #6 of 141 (3016 views)
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The dream seems to be Valar sourced just because [In reply to] Can't Post

I cannot see Gandalf or Galadriel trying to mentally contact people they may not even know. On this read through such "divine" interventions are standing out more and more- from luck to providence to dreams etc.


Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 27 2017, 3:06am

Post #7 of 141 (2950 views)
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We also learn more about the enigmatic Nazgul [In reply to] Can't Post

At the ford, they are swept downstream, their dreaded horses are all killed and the riders lose their outer "form" - garments etc.
In this state, they are essentially malign shadows and seem to be unable to inflict much damage without somehow returning all the way to Sauron to be refitted...do they float across Middle Earth? Or, can they magically transport to Mordor by being in the nether realm? However, it seems to be a real world trip as the scouts are sent out to look for signs of them and it appears they have left for Mordor (which of course takes a long time to reach).


Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 27 2017, 6:22pm

Post #8 of 141 (2935 views)
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What foe lived within a days march of Bree? [In reply to] Can't Post

Aragorn, in discussing the activities of the Dunedain and the ignorance of the common folk speaks of foes kept a bay.
The only thing within say 20 miles of Bree would be the Barrow Downs and maybe some Trollish country. Orcs? From where? Evil men? From where?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 27 2017, 7:29pm

Post #9 of 141 (2926 views)
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...within a few days march... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
'"Strider" I am to one fat man who lives within a day's march of foes that would freeze his heart or lay his little town in ruin, if he were not guarded ceaselessly.'


Well, Mount Gram was a little over 200 miles from Bree; a bit far to be what Aragorn meant. The Barrow-downs were much, much closer. Other Wights might have haunted Arnorian ruins around Lake Evendim and in Fornost Erain. He might have also been referring to the Black Riders sent to seek out the Ring. Trade must have picked up for a while following the death of Smaug and bandits might have frequented the hills near Bree. The Dúnedain might not have been numerous enough to put an end to them, but might have been able to keep them from raiding the villages of Bree-land. But a wolf-pack might have been enough to put a good fright into Barliman Butterbur.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 27 2017, 7:38pm)


squire
Half-elven


Apr 27 2017, 8:40pm

Post #10 of 141 (2906 views)
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The question is the answer [In reply to] Can't Post

Otaku makes some logical suggestions, but really I think the point is that we simply have to take Aragorn at his word. Just because we never learn more about these foes doesn't mean they didn't exist or that Tolkien made an error; it more likely means that Middle-earth is, and is meant to be, larger and deeper than one story can contain.

This is a small but classic example of what Tolkien took such pride in about his creation: that it contained "glimpses of a large history in the background" (Letters, #247). There he was referring to the Silmarillion, but the thought applies as well to his expansion of The Hobbit's 'wide world' to encompass the War of the Ring: an entire new continent "full of strange creatures beyond count" (LotR Prologue). It seems some of those strange creatures lurked within a day's march of Bree!



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Darkstone
Immortal


Apr 27 2017, 9:41pm

Post #11 of 141 (2898 views)
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Lobelia / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************
"People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians, and if the laws of the United States continue to condone this behavior, history will surely classify us as a barbaric society."
-George Lucas, 1988



Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 27 2017, 11:48pm

Post #12 of 141 (2894 views)
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Or... [In reply to] Can't Post

...even Aragorn might be prone to the occasional slight exaggeration.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 29 2017, 1:33am

Post #13 of 141 (2869 views)
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The presence of a guiding influence is clearly detected [In reply to] Can't Post

and for me much more apparent on this read through. Frodo is on a raft in a turbulent river but when a boulder is in the way a subtle push allows him to pass. His Free Will is present, but it is also influenced by this divine touch, call it dreams, feelings, povidence, luck etc.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Apr 29 2017, 1:44am)


Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 29 2017, 1:44am

Post #14 of 141 (2864 views)
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I wonder how the men of Numenor were able to construct Orthanc. [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf indicates it is several thousand steps to the top - "there is no descent savet by a narrow stair of many thousand steps..."
For example, the Willis Tower (Sears Tower) in Chicago: "Sprint, jog or walk to the top of Willis Tower! Don't be daunted. From the start line, you're just 2,109 steps away from SkyDeck Chicago featuring The Ledge." Think of Orthanc of similar height!

I assume Saruman had men in his employ as "keepers of the Gate" when Gandalf entered as he was not alarmed by orcs. He only saw the changes from atop the tower.

Gandalf is surprised when Frodo tells him he saw him in his dream. The Ring? Why? What is behind his ability?

It is funny how Radagast rides off and simply disappears from the story.


Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 30 2017, 1:41am

Post #15 of 141 (2834 views)
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Gwaihir and Gandalf [In reply to] Can't Post

The Great Eagles always seem to be slightly grumpy - willing to do a small part in things though not that interested in the affairs of others.......but always end up making a significant contribution in the end. Gwaihir to Gandalf - "I was sent to bear tidings, not burdens." Who sent him? In the book, he came unlooked for whereas the movie has Gandalf sending the moth messenger. Valar again? Radagast?


Eruonen
Valinor


Apr 30 2017, 1:49am

Post #16 of 141 (2830 views)
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Gandalf's fight upon Weathertop was also interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

The Nazgul will "engage him" but only at night when their powers are more acute. Gandalf was hard pressed, beseiged, and emitted great bolts of fire and flame. I assume all of this power was just enough to keep them at bay as their outer forms were not destroyed again - as far as we know. We can only guess at what such a conflict would look like. We have to remember the Nazguls are vessels for Sauron's power....'the power of their master is in them, and they stand or fall with him...." (The Ring Goes South)


squire
Half-elven


Apr 30 2017, 1:57am

Post #17 of 141 (2834 views)
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The Eagles did it, with the Talon, in the Eyrie. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's tricky to figure out who sent Gwaihir to save Gandalf, because he tells that part of the story in two widely separated passages:
‘ “Stay a moment! “ I [Gandalf] said [to Radagast]. “We shall need your help, and the help of all things that will give it. Send out messages to all the beasts and birds that are your friends. Tell them to bring news of anything that bears on this matter to Saruman and Gandalf. Let messages be sent to Orthanc.”

later in Gandalf's tale:
'Radagast knew no reason why he should not do as I asked; and he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old. And the Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of Orcs; and the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring these tidings to me.
‘So it was that when summer waned, there came a night of moon, and Gwaihir the Windlord, swiftest of the Great Eagles, came unlooked-for to Orthanc;...'
- LotR II.2, bold by squire.

So it wasn't Radagast exactly, but at his request "they" scouted the lands of the Wild and then sent Gwaihir as a messenger to Gandalf. "They" means the other Eagles. Grumpy but effective.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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noWizardme
Valinor


May 1 2017, 9:56am

Post #18 of 141 (2786 views)
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Elrond is specific about it, though Tolkien remains vague [In reply to] Can't Post

in Council, Elrond specifically makes a bold claim. He says not only that the meeting should decide what to do with the Ring, and appoint officers to carry out the plan, but he clearly claims that the group has been assembled for this very purpose by what you neatly call a Guiding Influence:


Quote
'What shall we do with the Ring, the least of rings, the trifle that Sauron fancies? That is the doom that we must deem.'

‘That is the purpose for which you are called hither. Called, I say, though I have not called you to me, strangers from distant lands. You have come here and here met, in this very nick of time, by chance as it may seem. Yet it is not so. Believe rather that it is so ordered that we, who sit here, and none others, must now find counsel for the peril of the world.’


Then again, when Frodo volunteers to take the Ring, Elrond also seems quite clear that both destiny and free will are at work. He seems to say that Frodo can and must choose freely to take the Ring, but also that he is “meant” to do so. Furthermore, he thinks that perhaps no one else can succeed, were Frodo to have refused. (It's of course a matter of speculation whether Frodo's refusal was a possible outcome - presumably it must have been if we believe Frodo had free will in the matter! - or what Elrond and Gandalf planned to do if Frodo had not been willing):


Quote

Elrond raised his eyes and looked at him, and Frodo felt his heart pierced by the sudden keenness of the glance. 'If I understand alright all that I have heard,' he said, 'I think this task is appointed for you, Frodo; and that if you do not find a way, no one will.' ...

‘But it is a heavy burden. So heavy that none could lay it on another. I do not lay it on you, but if you take it freely, I will say that your choice is right; and though all the mighty Elf-friends of old, Hador, and Hurin, and Turin, and Beren himself were assembled together, your seat should be among them.’

(my bolds)

I assume myself, that Elrond has a pretty shrewd idea of how Middle-earth 'works' in terms of free will and fate and so on. But Tolkien does not weigh in with a confirmation from himself as omnipotent narrator, so the matter's open for debate.

I liked your analogy about Frodo on a raft:


In Reply To
Frodo is on a raft in a turbulent river but when a boulder is in the way a subtle push allows him to pass. His Free Will is present, but it is also influenced by this divine touch, call it dreams, feelings, providence, luck etc.


My own reading is very similar - it's that:
=>Frodo certainly can't lie back on the raft chanting 'O Elbereth, Gilthoniel' and expect the Guiding Influences to do all the hard work - he's expected to think and judge and steer and paddle, and get help!

=>Rather than the boulder being movable literally by a subtle push by Frodo (or some other rather clunky plot-device like a flash flood that moves it) it's more that the rapids by the boulder might be just about shootable with luck and skill. Or maybe Frodo is 'meant' to realise it's time to abandon the raft and hike on overland. Or maybe he tries the rapids, capsizes and survives with a wetting, and an injury and the loss of some of his supplies. Such an apparent misfortune might be turned into a plot point (we later learn that it was a blessing in disguise), or might merely be more hardships for Frodo to endure. [Possibly it's that kind of thing you meant by 'a subtle push' rather than someone or something literally applying physical force, which turns out to move the boulder more easily than looked possible?]

I certainly agree that Frodo gets some prompts, as do other characters - they say 'their heart tells them' to do or not do a thing.

I've read lots of analysis suggesting that this subtle intervention by Guiding Influences emerges from Tolkien's Catholic faith and world-view, along with influences from the Norse and Germanic stories he loved.

One thing makes it harder to infer what is a Guiding Influence from within the world of the story is that Tolkien as author is of course guiding his characters from outside the world, moving them along his chosen plot. His problem as writer is then to throw all kinds of interesting and believable obstacles in the way of his desired outcome, so that it isn't achieved too soon or too easily, and we readers empathise with the characters as they try to cope. So of course Frodo isn't actually going to do something that will make the Quest fail (not until the very end, where Tolkien has a plot twist ready). Potentially the in-story Guiding Influences work like that too (everyone is forced along the rails of their assigned plot), but I don't think so myself. I imagine that Frodo or the others could theoretically have done something to mess up their Quests, but - heroically - they manage not to!

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm

(This post was edited by noWizardme on May 1 2017, 9:57am)


Eruonen
Valinor


May 1 2017, 2:36pm

Post #19 of 141 (2778 views)
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What is the "dark shadow" that goes over the sky every time [In reply to] Can't Post

the language of Mordor is spoken? When Gandalf reads the ring script it happens and it happens other times.....are Nazgul already flying about and over Rivendell? Is this Sauron projecting? Just some artifice by JRR Tolkien to set the scene?

There are several scenes, including Gandalf in the next chapter, where certain actions are like a loud gong to those who can hear them.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on May 1 2017, 2:47pm)


Eruonen
Valinor


May 1 2017, 2:53pm

Post #20 of 141 (2765 views)
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Agree - [In reply to] Can't Post

Not that the "boulder" is moved but that sometimes in addition to whatever Frodo does there is a small hint at the best course - lean right and tilt by the rock or lean left and shoot around it etc. A small light is dimly seen at times pointing the way.

And yes, disaster often leads to the only possible positive outcome. He has to go through the brambles to get to the other side.

It is possible that his will could fail him...that is not ruled out. Despite the very soft influences it is still up to Frodo.

I think of the movie scene with Shelob and Frodo when Galadriel sends a wake up call.....not enough to really change the outcome but a small assistance.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on May 1 2017, 2:55pm)


noWizardme
Valinor


May 1 2017, 6:43pm

Post #21 of 141 (2746 views)
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It's a strange effect - but 'every time'? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
"The change in the wizard’s voice was astounding. Suddenly it became menacing, powerful, harsh as stone. A shadow seemed to pass over the high sun, and the porch for a moment grew dark. All trembled, and the Elves stopped their ears. ‘Never before has any voice dared to utter words of that tongue in Imladris, Gandalf the Grey,’ said Elrond, as the shadow passed and the company breathed once more."

Council of Elrond


Note the 'seemed' Tolkien also likes to use 'seemed' as an effect of fantastic hesitation - -


Quote
Fantastic hesitation is a concept of Tzvetan Todorov, which is used to describe a situation where the reader (and usually the characters as well) lacks the knowledge whether the events depicted in a story are the result of some sort of a supernatural force at work or have a naturalistic explanation to them. It is often evoked by using language which generates hesitance and uncertainty.

Black Fox http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=833138#833138 (her post and the subsequent discussion has other examples)



I can't think of any other occasions when we get that effect when Black Speech is spoken - are you thinking of any particular instances that I can't recall? Gandalf translates the Rings inscription for Frodo at Bag End but does not read it in the Black Speech ('which I shall not utter here').

What it reminds me of though is Gandalf assisting Bilbo to give up the Ring:


Quote
"Gandalf’s eyes flashed. ‘It will be my turn to get angry soon,’ he said. ‘If you say that again, I shall. Then you will see Gandalf the Grey uncloaked.’ He took a step towards the hobbit, and he seemed to grow tall and menacing; his shadow filled the little room. Bilbo backed away to the wall, breathing hard, his hand clutching at his pocket. They stood for a while facing one another, and the air of the room tingled. [There is some dialogue then Gandalf ] turned away, and the shadow passed."

A Long Expected Party


~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


Eruonen
Valinor


May 2 2017, 3:13am

Post #22 of 141 (2726 views)
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Of course now I can't find the earlier scene - did some quck searching [In reply to] Can't Post

Frodo looking at the stary night sky and a shadow crosses.

We also have the opposite scene of a shadow but instead of something evil, the Eagle that gets Gandalf.

"Every time" may be an exaggeration but pay attention to the use of the shadow whenever Sauron or Mordor etc. are discussed and when the Hobbits are on the run. Later, flying beasts are likely to explain the effect.


Eruonen
Valinor


May 2 2017, 3:27am

Post #23 of 141 (2720 views)
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Elrond mentioned possibly sending two elves from his household [In reply to] Can't Post

but then Merry and Pippin insisted on going. The number nine is picked as Elrond says..."Nine Walkers shall be set against the Nine Riders that are evil." Ok, but two elf warriors - especially Glorfindel, could have come in handy! How would the company have faired with two additional?
Would two more have fallen? Would Frodo have been able to wander off?


Just a quick search for numerology of the respective #s....

http://www.numerology.com/...ers/11-master-number
"11 is one of the Master Numbers"....."The 11 symbolizes the potential to push the limitations of the human experience into the stratosphere of the highest spiritual perception; the link between the mortal and the immortal; between man and spirit; between darkness and light; ignorance and enlightenment. This is the ultimate symbolic power of the 11."

http://www.numerology.com/number-9

"....9, more than any other number, has global consciousness.....The 9 lives in the world and understands the connections between all of mankind."

Ok then!

Elrond then says...."In seven days the company must depart."

Another number - 7 of course his historically a "lucky" number and " 7 is the seeker, the thinker, the searcher of Truth....7 knows that nothing is exactly as it seems and that reality is often hidden behind illusions."


(This post was edited by Eruonen on May 2 2017, 3:36am)


noWizardme
Valinor


May 2 2017, 11:25am

Post #24 of 141 (2705 views)
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:) happens to me all the time [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Of course now I can't find the earlier scene ...


Sometimes I find it later, sometimes I conclude that it only existed in my memory. It's one of the nice things about these discussions, I think: thanks to other contributors, I can get away from the interpretation of the book that has built up in my head over time, and begun to include 'errors'.

I'll look out for further reports of such shadows - interesting to think about whether they are (1) actually anything there, OR; (2) it's the effect of something going on - e.g. Black Speech is like a shadow, and so the shadow is metaphorical.

I'd resist an interpretation myself that agents of Sauron are spying upon Elrond's Council - the rest of the plot relies upon Sauron not realising that the Ring is to be destroyed in Mordor (a move it would be easy to defend against, once it was understood).

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


Eruonen
Valinor


May 3 2017, 6:12pm

Post #25 of 141 (2654 views)
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The Ring Goes South - part 1 [In reply to] Can't Post

So, the Hobbits rest and relax for two whole months while the country is searched for sign of the Nazgul. Radagast has mysteriously disappeared. (It might make sense to conclude Saruman tricked him as well and he is sitting in some cell inside Orthanc.....except there is no evidence of that later when Saruman is overthrown....but then again, we don't know anyone went inside Orthanc and gave it a good look).

Frodo is given the Mithril shirt and Sting (thrust with little effort into a wooden beam!).....Bilbo placed the shirt (and Sting?) at Michel Delving from some reason.

Narsil is reforged as Anduril.

The Nazgul must return to their master - "as best they could...empty and shapeless."
Q - if Sauron no longer has the One Ring - what is the source of his control over The Nine? Yes, they are wraiths now - but - without the leash the dogs could stray.

Elrond has the ability to percieve...as do other high elves....beyond eyesight...more of a special ability unless clouded by The Shadow.

It does seem a bit odd how light The Company went in the way of weapons. Aragorn we are told only has Anduril.....what, not even a knife? No mail shirt....just his ranger clothes. No bow. Legolas has his bow and knife (1)....Gimli his ax (1) and a mail shirt......Boromir - long sword, shield, horn...no mention of mail.....Hobbits - short swords.

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