Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Concerning The High Fells

NoelGallagher
Rohan


Apr 9 2017, 8:34pm

Post #1 of 23 (4604 views)
Shortcut
Concerning The High Fells Can't Post

Just watched AUJ. Why the hell they didnt let it in the first movie?
It fits soooo perfectly after the dwarves leaving Rivendell and Galadriels/Gandalfs dialogue concerning the morgul blade.
Even the camera angle with the dwarves entering the Misty Mountains has been made in mind with cutting to Gandalf approaching the tombs.

Any ideas?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 9 2017, 8:53pm

Post #2 of 23 (4552 views)
Shortcut
Not a clue. [In reply to] Can't Post

My best guess was that moving the sequence had something to do with the decision to go from two films to three. But the visit to the High Fells still seems like it fits better between the time that the company leaves Rivendell and when Gandalf rejoins the Dwarves in Goblin Town. I mean, Rhudaur is right there, just north of Rivendell; the High Fells couldn't be more than a few dozen miles north of the High Pass, though Jackson and his team never indicated its exact location on a map.

Even if Gandalf was allowed to keep his borrowed mount, it should have taken him five days to a week just to get from the eaves of Mirkwood to the High Fells. not even counting returning from there to make his way to Dol Guldur.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 9 2017, 9:07pm)


Noria
Gondor

Apr 10 2017, 11:32am

Post #3 of 23 (4501 views)
Shortcut
I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

That sequence would have worked much better after Rivendell. Like Otaku-sempai, I suspect the move was made because of the two-to-three film change.

I don't care about the geography (though I don't disagree about that) because I've accepted that PJ's geography and history are not always the same as Tolkien's and are more fluid.

However, storywise, it seems to me that the Rhudaur sequence should come after the White Council at Rivendell, just like there is so obviously a scene missing when the Dwarves enter Thranduil's realm.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 10 2017, 2:23pm

Post #4 of 23 (4491 views)
Shortcut
Missing Scene? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I don't care about the geography (though I don't disagree about that) because I've accepted that PJ's geography and history are not always the same as Tolkien's and are more fluid.


Well, we know that Jackson often ignored issues of time and distance in the Middle-earth films (though Gandalf's description of Mirkwood's size matches the book and does seem to confirm that the scale is about the same). And it does seem to take Frodo and his companions in Jackson's FotR about a month to get from the Shire to Rivendell. If we pay close enough attention to the films, we can note the changing of the seasons as the characters progress. It's just that the pacing undermines these observations.


In Reply To
However, storywise, it seems to me that the Rhudaur sequence should come after the White Council at Rivendell, just like there is so obviously a scene missing when the Dwarves enter Thranduil's realm.


What scene? And do you mean after the company crosses the Enchanted Stream? I know that the Rankin/Bass animated Hobbit references the Wood-elves' clearing where the forest feast occurred, but I don't think that the feast was ever lensed for the Jackson films.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 10 2017, 2:26pm)


Noria
Gondor

Apr 10 2017, 3:12pm

Post #5 of 23 (4479 views)
Shortcut
I should have said Thranduil's halls. [In reply to] Can't Post

After Legolas brings the captive Dwarves into Thranduil's underground halls and the door shuts behind them, there is that great gradual reveal of the Elf King watching as the Dwarves are brought towards him through the huge cavern. IIRC, we then see the Dwarves being tossed into the cells and then go to Thorin and Thranduil.

I always felt there was a scene missing, that the way the sequence was shot suggested that the Dwarves would appear before Thranduil prior to being locked up. It's mentioned in the extras that such a scene was shot but PJ eliminated it even from the EE as being superfluous. I can't really argue with that but something about the flow of that whole sequence seems off to me as a result. Plus I would have enjoyed the snark.

My feeling about the Rhudaur scene is that it works OK where it is if you ignore the geography but makes more sense right after Rivendell.

I always ignore canon geography, history, timelines and common sense in these movies. The movieverse is what it is.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 10 2017, 3:30pm

Post #6 of 23 (4475 views)
Shortcut
Thranduil interviewing the Company [In reply to] Can't Post

I can envision such a scene, but I also don't know whether one was shot.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Apr 11 2017, 10:38pm

Post #7 of 23 (4348 views)
Shortcut
Don't underestimate Gandalf's speed [In reply to] Can't Post

He can gallop unexpectidly quick at times. And he might have been riding a Mere!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 12 2017, 1:25am

Post #8 of 23 (4342 views)
Shortcut
Beorn's Horses [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
He can gallop unexpectidly quick at times. And he might have been riding a Mere!


Well, Beorn's horses might have been kin to the mearas (sing. meara). The ancestors of the Rohirrim did once dwell in the Vales of the Anduin. On the other hand, even Shadowfax couldn't teleport.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


dormouse
Half-elven


Apr 12 2017, 10:02am

Post #9 of 23 (4304 views)
Shortcut
The scene of Thranduil and the dwarves was definitely shot.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... they show a glimpse of it in the EE appendix and specifically mention that it was cut because it seemed superfluous, just as Noria says.

I can see why Peter Jackson felt he didn't need it, but it would have been good to see it anyway!

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 12 2017, 1:23pm

Post #10 of 23 (4279 views)
Shortcut
Thanks. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've probably seen that myself; however, it's been quite a while since I've viewed the Appendices documentaries.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


moreorless
Gondor

Apr 16 2017, 5:04pm

Post #11 of 23 (4005 views)
Shortcut
Is the geography THAT bad? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
After Legolas brings the captive Dwarves into Thranduil's underground halls and the door shuts behind them, there is that great gradual reveal of the Elf King watching as the Dwarves are brought towards him through the huge cavern. IIRC, we then see the Dwarves being tossed into the cells and then go to Thorin and Thranduil.

I always felt there was a scene missing, that the way the sequence was shot suggested that the Dwarves would appear before Thranduil prior to being locked up. It's mentioned in the extras that such a scene was shot but PJ eliminated it even from the EE as being superfluous. I can't really argue with that but something about the flow of that whole sequence seems off to me as a result. Plus I would have enjoyed the snark.

My feeling about the Rhudaur scene is that it works OK where it is if you ignore the geography but makes more sense right after Rivendell.

I always ignore canon geography, history, timelines and common sense in these movies. The movieverse is what it is.


To me the geography/travel makes more sense in Jacksons version than the suggested use of the High Fells. To me it seems heavily implied that his High Fells more in the same kind of area as Angmar/Gungabad, certainly the landscape to me seems similar being harsh and more northerly.

In that respect Gandalfs travel there makes a lot more sense I think as the distance is similar but he has considerably longer to meet up with the Dwarves as there traveling further.

Story wise as well I think Jackson probably wanted Gandalf to have a reason to turn away from the quest at that specific point hence having him discover more info that makes him near certain of Saurons return.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Apr 16 2017, 5:16pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 16 2017, 6:44pm

Post #12 of 23 (3988 views)
Shortcut
High Fells of Rhudaur [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
To me the geography/travel makes more sense in Jacksons version than the suggested use of the High Fells. To me it seems heavily implied that his High Fells more in the same kind of area as Angmar/Gungabad, certainly the landscape to me seems similar being harsh and more northerly.


I'm not sure what you mean. The High Fells would have been a little south of Angmar and Gundabad. It;s location remains pretty much the same in the original conception and in the actual films.


In Reply To
In that respect Gandalfs travel there makes a lot more sense I think as the distance is similar but he has considerably longer to meet up with the Dwarves as there traveling further.


It makes sense to have Gandalf completely backtrack to the Misty Mountains and then head north to Rhudaur? Maybe it does to you. To me it is far more sensible for Gandalf to investigate the tombs immediately after leaving Rivendell and then catch up to the company.


In Reply To
Story wise as well I think Jackson probably wanted Gandalf to have a reason to turn away from the quest at that specific point hence having him discover more info that makes him near certain of Saurons return.


Gandalf does still have a reason to leave: he needs to investigate Dol Guldur. The difference between this and the book is that there he always intended to leave the company after crossing the mountains so he could rendezvous with the rest of the White Council and deal with the Necromancer, It is unclear if Tolkien imagined Gandalf returning to Rivendell or if the Council (then described as a council of white wizards) was to gather elsewhere.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


moreorless
Gondor

Apr 16 2017, 7:45pm

Post #13 of 23 (3978 views)
Shortcut
More of a window on the wise... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I'm not sure what you mean. The High Fells would have been a little south of Angmar and Gundabad. It;s location remains pretty much the same in the original conception and in the actual films.


What does Jacksons film tell us? That the Witchking was defeated and buried by the men of the north, it doesn't really mention any more than that and he could have been buried quite close to Angmar. Really the main guide we have is the look of the area and to me it clearly looks similar to Gundabad.


Quote
It makes sense to have Gandalf completely backtrack to the Misty Mountains and then head north to Rhudaur? Maybe it does to you. To me it is far more sensible for Gandalf to investigate the tombs immediately after leaving Rivendell and then catch up to the company.


In terms of time and distance I think it makes more sense, if he travels all the way north whilst the Dwarves leave Rivendell then getting back in time to save them from the Goblins would be rather questionable and generally seem a little too convenien for me.


Quote
]Gandalf does still have a reason to leave: he needs to investigate Dol Guldur. The difference between this and the book is that there he always intended to leave the company after crossing the mountains so he could rendezvous with the rest of the White Council and deal with the Necromancer, It is unclear if Tolkien imagined Gandalf returning to Rivendell or if the Council (then described as a council of white wizards) was to gather elsewhere.


The big difference though is that in Jacksons film we have a much more direct window into the doings of the wise than in the book. Dramatically I think it makes more sense for Sauron's return to be revealed more gradually and for Gandalf to have a reason to back out of the quest at that specific point


(This post was edited by moreorless on Apr 16 2017, 7:46pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 16 2017, 8:12pm

Post #14 of 23 (3975 views)
Shortcut
Rhudaur [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
What does Jacksons film tell us? That the Witchking was defeated and buried by the men of the north, it doesn't really mention any more than that and he could have been buried quite close to Angmar. Really the main guide we have is the look of the area and to me it clearly looks similar to Gundabad.


We are specifically told that the High Fells is in Rhudaur; and, the borders of Rhudaur are known. If we assume that the High Fells are near the source of the River Hoarwell then that places it about 100 miles or so south of Gundabad, and about the same distance north of Rivendell. However that is a very rough approximation and the tombs could have been closer to Rivendell.


In Reply To
In terms of time and distance I think it makes more sense, if he travels all the way north whilst the Dwarves leave Rivendell then getting back in time to save them from the Goblins would be rather questionable and generally seem a little too convenien for me.


"A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." Gandalf catches up to the Dwarves in time simply because he is Gandalf.


In Reply To
The big difference though is that in Jacksons film we have a much more direct window into the doings of the wise than in the book. Dramatically I think it makes more sense for Sauron's return to be revealed more gradually and for Gandalf to have a reason to back out of the quest at that specific point


Perhaps, but we learn little at the High Fells that we don't already know. We and Gandalf are already aware that the Ringwraiths are about and that at least one has been encountered by Radagast at Dol Guldur. Mostly what we do learn is that the tombs were broken from within. By the time that the company reaches Mirkwood, that is a long way to retrace for little new information. It makes more sense to me that Gandalf would have looked into the tombs right away after leaving Rivendell (as he was originally intended to).

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 16 2017, 8:12pm)


moreorless
Gondor

Apr 17 2017, 1:50pm

Post #15 of 23 (3879 views)
Shortcut
Probably not present in a two film adpatation... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
We are specifically told that the High Fells is in Rhudaur; and, the borders of Rhudaur are known. If we assume that the High Fells are near the source of the River Hoarwell then that places it about 100 miles or so south of Gundabad, and about the same distance north of Rivendell. However that is a very rough approximation and the tombs could have been closer to Rivendell.


We do not specifically know any of this in Jacksons film, its merely suggested that its to the north of middle earth.


Quote
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to." Gandalf catches up to the Dwarves in time simply because he is Gandalf.


I think there's such a thing as pushing this too far though. What he get in the film is I think more successful both in terms of realism and indeed supprise. That we've not seen Gandalf since we've left Rivendell puts him out of mind yet it makes perfect sense he'd be following the Dwarves and catches up to them at that point.


Quote
Perhaps, but we learn little at the High Fells that we don't already know. We and Gandalf are already aware that the Ringwraiths are about and that at least one has been encountered by Radagast at Dol Guldur. Mostly what we do learn is that the tombs were broken from within. By the time that the company reaches Mirkwood, that is a long way to retrace for little new information. It makes more sense to me that Gandalf would have looked into the tombs right away after leaving Rivendell (as he was originally intended to).


Gandalf isn't definitely aware that the Ringwraths are about, he knows that the Mogul blade has been found but he only knows they've returned when he sees the empty tombs. This info also of course gets the council as a whole to take action which would not have happened otherwise.

Including this scene in the second film allows Jackson to reintroduce the threat of Sauron across that film making Gandalfs decision to enter Dol Guldor more dramatic for me.

In a two film Hobbit I suspect that the High fells scene probably wouldn't exist at all and indeed I think Jackson would likely have needed to cut back on the story as a whole a lot more than a lot of people seem to believe. I'm not just talking elements he introduced but the Dwarves travels would IMHO have needed to be streamlined greatly to get to Lake town in one film. This IMHO was likely the main reason for the shift to three films plus perhaps the feeling that the latter Thorin story with the Elves is less heroic and better setup for his faults at the lonely mountain.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Apr 17 2017, 1:51pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 17 2017, 2:31pm

Post #16 of 23 (3875 views)
Shortcut
Yes, we DO know this. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
We are specifically told that the High Fells is in Rhudaur; and, the borders of Rhudaur are known. If we assume that the High Fells are near the source of the River Hoarwell then that places it about 100 miles or so south of Gundabad, and about the same distance north of Rivendell. However that is a very rough approximation and the tombs could have been closer to Rivendell.


We do not specifically know any of this in Jacksons film, its merely suggested that its to the north of middle earth.


You need to pay attention to the dialogue at the meeting of the White Council:

ELROND: A Morgul Blade.

GALADRIEL: Made for the Witch-king of Angmar. And buried with him. When Angmar fell, the Men of the North took his body and all that he possessed and sealed it within the High Fells of Rhudaur.


In Reply To
Gandalf isn't definitely aware that the Ringwraths are about, he knows that the Mogul blade has been found but he only knows they've returned when he sees the empty tombs. This info also of course gets the council as a whole to take action which would not have happened otherwise.


Gandalf has Radagast's testimony of the return of the Witch-king. He cannot immediately prove this to the Council (particularly to Saruman), but he does believe Radagast.


In Reply To
Including this scene in the second film allows Jackson to reintroduce the threat of Sauron across that film making Gandalfs decision to enter Dol Guldor more dramatic for me.


For me, Gandalf flashing back to Galadriel's dialogue from Rivendell and his memory of visiting the tombs would be enough to reintroduce the threat of Sauron. And Gandalf still leaves the company at the eaves of Mirkwood to investigate Dol Guldur.


In Reply To
In a two film Hobbit I suspect that the High fells scene probably wouldn't exist at all and indeed I think Jackson would likely have needed to cut back on the story as a whole a lot more than a lot of people seem to believe. I'm not just talking elements he introduced but the Dwarves travels would IMHO have needed to be streamlined greatly to get to Lake town in one film. This IMHO was likely the main reason for the shift to three films plus perhaps the feeling that the latter Thorin story with the Elves is less heroic and better setup for his faults at the lonely mountain.


The High Fells sequence was filmed when the plan was still to make two films. The only change was rearranging the sequence to appear after the company reaches Mirkwood in the second film instead of it taking place before Gandalf catches up to the Dwarves in Goblin Town. And the company was never going to reach Lake-town at the end of An Unexpected Journey. The film was originally going to end on a cliffhanger with their first encounter with Bard.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 17 2017, 2:33pm)


moreorless
Gondor

Apr 17 2017, 6:40pm

Post #17 of 23 (3844 views)
Shortcut
Ragagast isnt so specific... [In reply to] Can't Post

He doesn't claim directly that Sauron has risen nore indeed that the Wiki himself is present at Dol Guldor. From the scene we see with him in Dol Guldor he faces a ghostly creature that dissolves into smoke rather than the more physically present(if stull obviously supernatural) Nazgul we see latter in the Hobbit and LOTR.

Exactly when Jackson and co started working towards a three film rather than a two film Hobbit is tough to know and indeed with LOTR we know that the story evolved in the filming with significant amounts of material ending up not being used. My point was more that even if he might have intended it to be used post Rivendell I'm not sure it would have worked out in that fashion given the timing/plotting limitations of two films. The switch to three films was I suspect actually more about NOT having to change as much of what had already been filmed which Jackson had desided couldn't work effectively as two films.

Beyond the advantages I mentioned already as well I think keeping the more definite reveal of the Nazgul's return until latter in the story allows for AUJ to exist on a level more similar to the book. You have Azog added as an antagonist but your still talking a simpler adventure with the grander Sauron story only hinted at with no definite action taken by the wise.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Apr 17 2017, 6:42pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 17 2017, 8:57pm

Post #18 of 23 (3828 views)
Shortcut
I understand your point. [In reply to] Can't Post

After Gandalf's first encounter with Radagast in An Unexpected Journey he suspects much but can prove little beyond the recovery of the Witch-king's Morgul-knife (which is recognized as authentic by Galadriel). Gandalf strongly suspects that at least the Black Captain is loose and possibly the rest of the Nine; he might even know it in his heart to be true. However, the Grey Wizard has no proof that Saruman will accept at face value and Elrond is seemingly too cautious to side with Gandalf and Galadriel against the White Wizard without more evidence. And as Head of the White Council, Saruman seems to have the authority (based on the evidence of the books) to overrule the others regardless of how many disagree with him, Or perhaps he possessed two votes to one vote from the other members (we don't know what the bylaws were adopted by the White Council).

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


moreorless
Gondor

Apr 18 2017, 8:33am

Post #19 of 23 (3806 views)
Shortcut
He suspects I'd agree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
After Gandalf's first encounter with Radagast in An Unexpected Journey he suspects much but can prove little beyond the recovery of the Witch-king's Morgul-knife (which is recognized as authentic by Galadriel). Gandalf strongly suspects that at least the Black Captain is loose and possibly the rest of the Nine; he might even know it in his heart to be true. However, the Grey Wizard has no proof that Saruman will accept at face value and Elrond is seemingly too cautious to side with Gandalf and Galadriel against the White Wizard without more evidence. And as Head of the White Council, Saruman seems to have the authority (based on the evidence of the books) to overrule the others regardless of how many disagree with him, Or perhaps he possessed two votes to one vote from the other members (we don't know what the bylaws were adopted by the White Council).


Yeah I'd agree Gandalf suspects that somethinginvolving the Wiki and maybe Sauron himself might be afoot but he doesn't "know" even if he entirely believes Radagast. That is I think the obvious difference, in AUJ he still isn't certain enough to abandon the quest where as after the High Fells he is.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Apr 18 2017, 8:34am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 18 2017, 11:46am

Post #20 of 23 (3790 views)
Shortcut
I think that's the one change to the High Fells sequence. [In reply to] Can't Post

Originally, Gandalf would have caught up to the Dwarves and stayed with the company until they reached Mirkwood before leaving for Dol Guldur. I think the conversation between Gandalf and Radagast at the High Fells about abandoning the others might have been a new scene filmed in re-shoots. In fact, I'm fairly certain of it.

Our disagreement is just a little quibble over how the sequence works best.Just a matter of different opinions.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 18 2017, 11:52am)


moreorless
Gondor

Apr 18 2017, 12:41pm

Post #21 of 23 (3781 views)
Shortcut
Radagast is present in the tomb of course... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Originally, Gandalf would have caught up to the Dwarves and stayed with the company until they reached Mirkwood before leaving for Dol Guldur. I think the conversation between Gandalf and Radagast at the High Fells about abandoning the others might have been a new scene filmed in re-shoots. In fact, I'm fairly certain of it.

Our disagreement is just a little quibble over how the sequence works best.Just a matter of different opinions.


It is interesting that Radagast appears within the tombs as well though suggesting that he was always likely to have some form of conservation with Gandalff afterwards although I'd agree this was likely altered.

I wouldn't really say the matter of how the sequence works best dramatically is a minor issue around it although of course it always will be highly subjective. I'd be pretty much certain this was the most important issue for Jackson when choosing where to use it with any potential location of the Fells as a very minor issue that even the majority of readers would likely be unaware of.

Again I suspect a big issue was that Jackson actually wanted AUJ to play out as a more Bilbo centric adventure akin to the book. If Gandalf is always planning to leave the party to take part in white council action against Sauron(or even to go to Dol Gulldor alone) I think that naturally shifts the story in that direction.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Apr 18 2017, 3:15pm

Post #22 of 23 (3766 views)
Shortcut
Gandalf's Mission [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Again I suspect a big issue was that Jackson actually wanted AUJ to play out as a more Bilbo centric adventure akin to the book. If Gandalf is always planning to leave the party to take part in white council action against Sauron(or even to go to Dol Gulldor alone) I think that naturally shifts the story in that direction.


That is only true if Gandalf's intention is made explicit early on. As long as it is kept from the audience until the reveal at the eaves of Mirkwood it does not shift the attention off of Bilbo. However, in the book, Gandalf is open right from the start about his having other business after leading the company over the Misty Mountains. He never reveals the details of that mission until after he and Bilbo return to Rivendell on the way back to Hobbiton.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Apr 18 2017, 3:16pm)


moreorless
Gondor

Apr 18 2017, 8:32pm

Post #23 of 23 (3725 views)
Shortcut
Thats not really the way the story is treated though... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That is only true if Gandalf's intention is made explicit early on. As long as it is kept from the audience until the reveal at the eaves of Mirkwood it does not shift the attention off of Bilbo. However, in the book, Gandalf is open right from the start about his having other business after leading the company over the Misty Mountains. He never reveals the details of that mission until after he and Bilbo return to Rivendell on the way back to Hobbiton.


In the book Gandalf might always have had this intension but his dealings are obviously kept distant from the reader where as Jacksons films go into detail about them.

If you do this then I think it has the potential for this plot to overshadow the rest so the natural counter to that is to introduce it more slowly with Sauron only hinted at in AUJ.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Apr 18 2017, 8:41pm)

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.