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Laurelindo
The Shire
Mar 9 2017, 3:54pm
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Was Frodo "heartbroken" at the end of "Return Of The King"?
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*SPOILERS*
It has been a while since I read these books, but I vividly remember that Frodo was acting quite strange at the very end of "Return Of The King", and that it seemed like he had developed some form of depression - particularly the part when he sits quiet for himself and says that "it is gone now, and all is dark and empty".
I have always felt like this was a result of Frodo becoming very attached to the Ring, and losing it in a traumatic way.
Of course, Bilbo also shows a similar attachment to the Ring and becomes angry when Gandalf tells him to leave it behind, but Bilbo actually got a chance to make up his own mind, which made it much easier for him to get over it.
Frodo, on the other hand, got the Ring stolen from him while he was under its full control, so I assume that this would have made him emotionally scarred as well?
The book seemed to chiefly mention physical injuries such as the stab he received from the Ring-Wraiths and the loss of one of his fingers, but I always liked to think that his extreme connection to the Ring made him feel terribly depressed after he lost it.
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Allan J
Registered User
Mar 9 2017, 4:28pm
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Post Traumatic Stress big time
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Mordor would have left scars, constant danger, weight of the ring, poisonous fumes, lack of water, the watch-fullness and proximity to Sauron. Not to mention past wounds, stabbed by the Witch King, poisoned by Shelob, tortured by Orcs, Gollums bite. And you are right, having the ring taken by force and then destroyed in his presence.
I don't think the horror that would have been Mordor was conveyed fully in either the books or movies. In the books I believe this was purposeful, things were hinted at leaving the reader to imagine it on their own.
What he went through would have scarred him big time.
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Hamfast Gamgee
Tol Eressea
Mar 9 2017, 6:08pm
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Frodo did go through an awful lot
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And all in one calander year. I think what tipped him over the edge was Shelob's sting. He never did seem quite the same Hobbit after that. Although possibly he might have been all right with a few weeks in a healers bed and recopriation as opposed a desperate journey in the dark as what he got. I wonder sometimes if Frodo would have so eager to volunteer for the quest to Gandalf had he known what would happen to him. Oh, welcome to The One Ring btw!
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Lissuin
Valinor
Mar 9 2017, 9:16pm
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Yes, I do think Frodo was heartbroken.
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He is the hero of this story - who cannot view himself as a hero because of his own perceived failure, of his shame at his weakness in the final moment of his task. These are Tolkien's own words about it from Letter 246 in "The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Humphrey Carpenter. The entire letter of several pages makes moving reading in light of what we now understand of the "walking wounded" in war.
I do not think that Frodo was a moral failure. At the last moment the pressure of the Ring would reach its maximum - impossible, I should have said, for any one to resist, certainly after long possession, months of increasing torment, and when starved and exhausted. Frodo had done what he could and spent himself completely (as an instrument of providence) and had produced a situation in which the object of his quest could be achieved. His humility (with which he began) and his sufferings were justly rewarded by the highest honour; and his exercise of patience and mercy towards Gollum gained him Mercy: his failure was redressed.
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Frodo undertook his quest out of love - to save the world he knew from disaster at his own expense, if he could. ...I do not myself see that the breaking of his mind and will under demonic pressure after torment was any more of a moral failure than the breaking of his body would have been - say, by being strangled by Gollum, or crushed by a falling rock.
...
He appears at first to have no sense of guilt (III 224-5); he was restored to sanity and peace. But then he thought he had given his life in sacrifice: he expected to die very soon. But he did not, and one can observe the disquiet growing in him. Arwen was the first to observe the signs, and gave him her jewel for comfort, and thought of a way of healing him. [Note: she would have been one to intervene with Gandalf, asking that Frodo be allowed to sail West.] Slowly he fades 'out of the picture', saying and doing less. I think it is clear on reflection to an attentive reader that when his dark times came upon him and he was conscious of being 'wounded by knife sting and tooth and a long burden it was not only nightmare memories of past horrors that afflicted him, but also unreasoning self-reproach: he saw himself and all that he done [sic] as a broken failure. 'Though I may come to the Shire, it will not seem the same, for I shall not be the same. That was actually a temptation out of the Dark, a last flicker of pride: desire to have returned as a 'hero, not content with being a mere instrument of good. And it was mixed with another temptation, blacker and yet (in a sense) more merited, for however that may be explained, he had not in fact cast away the Ring by a voluntary act: he was tempted to regret its destruction, and still to desire it. 'It is gone for ever, and now all is dark and empty, he said as he wakened from his sickness in 1420.
'Alas! there are some wounds that cannot be wholly cured' said Gandalf (III 268) - not in Middle-earth. Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him - if that could be done, before he died:...a period of reflection and peace and a gaining of a truer understanding of his position in littleness and in greatness...
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dreamflower
Lorien
Mar 11 2017, 2:52pm
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That Frodo suffered from his experiences on the Quest. It's been fairly well documented by several modern psychologists that Frodo's reactions to everything points to what we nowadays call "post-traumatic stress syndrome". (My link to my favorite such article, Too Deeply Hurt Understanding Frodo's Decision to Depart by Karyn Milos, appears to be broken. *sigh* :-( I hope it's still around somewhere.)
He also clearly suffered from a number of physical ailments due to his privations: his "anniversary illnesses" were clearly more than just psychosomatic.
His sufferings are much-beloved of many fanfiction writers, who point out that in addition to his physical ills due to his poisoned wounds, he also nearly starved, which could have easily permanently affected his digestive system.
Of course, thematically, Frodo had to suffer. It made clear that his sacrifices were real, even though they did not claim his physical life, he did lose his life as a hobbit.
Some people call it fanfiction. I call it story-internal literary criticism.
(This post was edited by dreamflower on Mar 11 2017, 2:53pm)
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