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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Mummy '99 reference in DOS?

Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree


Dec 15 2016, 10:20am

Post #1 of 7 (1219 views)
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The Mummy '99 reference in DOS? Can't Post

A few days ago i rewatched the DOS EE with the audio commentary from PJ & PB and i noticed something interesting. When Gandalf reaches the tomb of the Nazgul (i'm still scratching my head why the Nazgul need tombs) PJ says something like he wanted that the tomb feels like an egypt pyramid (especially the ramp entrance) and i thought: "That scene where the men of the north bury the shackled-in-chains corpse of the Witch King kinda resembles the scene from the '99 Brendan Fraser Mummy movie, when the shackled-in-bandages high priest Imhotep is going to be imprisoned into the sarcophagus."

What do you think?

My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)

(This post was edited by Legolas_Shoehorn on Dec 15 2016, 10:22am)


dormouse
Half-elven


Dec 15 2016, 11:13am

Post #2 of 7 (1196 views)
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I think it's just coincidence [In reply to] Can't Post

Every story in existence contains elements that are similar to some other story, somewhere. Look for them and you can always find them - and for the most part they're not deliberate references, just fragments from what Tolkien called the 'soup' of story.

As to why the Nazgul needed tombs in the film re-telling of The Hobbit, I think they make that very clear in the film. The Witch King of Angmar and his subordinates are defeated and (apparently) dead. They need sealed tombs because the men who defeated them want to be certain they cannot come back - hence the chains. No need for chains on a really dead corpse.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree


Dec 15 2016, 12:41pm

Post #3 of 7 (1191 views)
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Wraith ~ Physical Body Issue [In reply to] Can't Post

It still irritates to me, why the Ringwraiths would have physical bodies/corpses after they were corrupted by their rings. I always refer to the Aragorn quote in 'Fellowship': He is passing into the Shadow World. He'll soon become a wraith like them.

I always assumed that (due to the ring corruption or a Morgul Blade injury) that the physical body shifts or transforms into the Wraith form. So there would be no physical body to bury. Or did the physical bodies of the Nine reappear after Saurons downfall?

My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)


dormouse
Half-elven


Dec 15 2016, 1:34pm

Post #4 of 7 (1181 views)
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But even in the book the Witch King had a physical body... [In reply to] Can't Post

... when Merry stabbed him - or at least, the text leaves open the possibility that he did. Tolkien didn't lay down hard-and-fast rules for these things, there's ambiguity there.

So if that's not the way you interpret the magic that creates Ringwraiths then I can see that the film version is annoying to you - but your interpretation isn't the only one possible and it's not the one they've chosen for the films.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Meneldor
Valinor


Dec 15 2016, 3:46pm

Post #5 of 7 (1162 views)
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There were more than just chains holding the Nazgul in the tombs. [In reply to] Can't Post

There were also sigils and spells, which I assume were there as "spiritual" chains to keep the wraiths tied to their bodies, which were tied to their tombs. The wise ones who vanquished the Nazgul were doing their best to ensure the 9 would be unable to rise again, physically and spiritually.

That's the way I interpret it, anyway. YMMV.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


Legolas_Shoehorn
Bree


Dec 15 2016, 3:50pm

Post #6 of 7 (1160 views)
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There is another possibility [In reply to] Can't Post

A body in its Wraith form is simply invisible. In Star Trek terms the physical bodies are shifted out of phase i guess. And since the Nazgul can attach cloaks and crowns to their wraith bodies we can assume there is physical interdependency between the Real World and the Shadow World.

My English is not that good, my Elvish is better ;-)


No One in Particular
Rivendell


Dec 18 2016, 4:11am

Post #7 of 7 (1047 views)
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What's in a wraith...? [In reply to] Can't Post

The term "wraith" is very poorly defined in Middle-earth. They appear to share in a both corporeal and non-corporeal state; they aren't vulnerable to most physical weapons, but they are solid enough to ride and wield blades. They're actually easier to define by what they aren't; they aren't ghosts, they aren't wights, they aren't dead, but they aren't alive either. They seem to be unique in that they are their own thing, which nothing else is really like.

While you live, shine
Have no grief at all
Life exists only for a short while
And time demands an end.
Seikilos Epitaph

 
 

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