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mordor89
Nevrast
Apr 26 2008, 10:46am
Post #1 of 22
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Mr. Del Toro next time u r on plz read this
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i know a lot of these are pretty much done but this is so neccasry i MUST reinforce speccaly since i know ur on this bd
Ian mckellen hasb een confirmed since day 1 so ill leave him alone but
Andy serkis MUST reprise the role of gollum
and i dont know y ne1 thinks idffret prob. never opend the books but
Ian Holm
MUST
MUST
MUST MUST MUST reprise the role of Mr. BIlbo Baggins (he hasnt aged a day remember look at fotr opening)
Thank you
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SteveDJ
Ossiriand
Apr 26 2008, 3:43pm
Post #2 of 22
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Please DON'T overdo the spiders...
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Everyone take a look at the second Harry Potter film (Chamber of Secrets). They already did a big chase scene with a gajillion spiders. Can we NOT have a repeat in the Hobbit?
How's about something more Hitchcock-like - where you don't see every single spider, but more of the intensity that you can sense the are there, maybe see a few out of the corners of your eyes, and just let your imagination run wild!
Thanks for listening (er, reading).
SteveDJ
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 26 2008, 8:33pm
Post #3 of 22
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It's great to see you on the discussion boards. One thing we ask of discussion board members is to not use txt-speak in posts - not only can it make our poor eyes bleed, but there's a fair bit of irony to see it here when our fandom is based on a book of literature and Tolkien was a professor who loved languages.
As for Bilbo, I'd love to see Holm come back in the role! But wonder if he is up to the physical demands of the movie? I really hope so - he played Bilbo so delightfully in FOTR that I'd love to see Holm presenting a more innocent Bilbo in The Hobbit.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Apr 26 2008, 11:22pm
Post #4 of 22
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...about Rowling? We're talking Tolkien here. It's like comparing Elmer Fudd to Winston Churchill. >8|
-mwirkk :)
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stormcrow20
Mithlond
Apr 27 2008, 3:34am
Post #5 of 22
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SteveDJ is simply stating his opinion that he hopes the spider scene in Mirkwood is not filmed in a way that it would resemble the similar spider-swarm scene in Chamber of Secrets. I quite agree, and since animatronics were mentioned by Mr. del Toro, I would add that I hope the spiders are not as horrible as those seen in Jumanji. But, with the team currently behind The Hobbit, I don't think we have to worry about either.
However, if you're joking again, consider my post null and void....because it went over my head once again.
~~~~~~
Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return.
'Take this ring, master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.'
(This post was edited by stormcrow20 on Apr 27 2008, 3:40am)
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Apr 27 2008, 8:15am
Post #6 of 22
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...because who wants crap? On the otherhand, The Hobbit should be about The Hobbit. What does it matter what was done elsewhere in some other work? It has no relavence.
-mwirkk :)
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Tikiboom
Lindon
Apr 27 2008, 8:42am
Post #7 of 22
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It's probably been taken care of already...
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...though I didn't see it. Is there a single, sticky "Dear Mr del Toro" thread? Rather than having members posting questions & thoughts in all corners of the forums, these could be confined to one place. And should Mr del Toro has a few minutes to spare, that might be a logical place for him to post his comments for members to see.
Just a thought. 
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Apr 27 2008, 3:48pm
Post #8 of 22
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If a scene too closely echoes one from an earlier film, then viewers who have seen both have every right to compare them. The Gollum-Sméagol dialogue outside of Mordor in Jackson's LotR suffered a little for being too close to Willem Defoe's argument-with-himself as the Green Goblin in Spider-man, for instance. And Jackson's climax at Mount Doom felt a little like a rip-off of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade ("Indiana, let it go.")
Now, I haven't seen the second Harry Potter film (nor read the book) and so wouldn't notice any such similarity. But for those who have there may be some hope: I would guess that in the Potter film, unlike The Hobbit, the spiders didn't talk. (Is that right?) So that may be helpful in differentiating them.
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Apr. 21-27 for "The Uruk-hai".
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Rivendweller
Menegroth
Apr 27 2008, 7:48pm
Post #9 of 22
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I would imagine it all depends on what people have seen - or - not seen. I never saw any of the Indy films past the first one, therefore the climax at Mount Doom held me in tears and suspense, just the way it was meant to.
Then again, I have seen and read Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets , but the scenes in question are entirely different. Only one spider spoke in the HP film, the main one and compared to Shelob...well, Aragog was not scary at all. His sons and daughters were though so perhaps therein lies the difference between animatronics and CGI.
There's something of everything here, The Shire and the Golden Wood and Gondor and kings' houses and inns and meadows and mountains all mixed.
....and there are Elves when you want them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Formerly A'amel from days gone by.
(This post was edited by Rivendweller on Apr 27 2008, 7:51pm)
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Thorin Firehelm
Registered User
Apr 27 2008, 8:57pm
Post #10 of 22
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If I remember correctly not all of the spiders talked. Aragog did but I think the others hisses a bit. However I have enough confidence and faith in Del Toro that he is a good enough director to NOT have a generic spider scene.
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Rivendweller
Menegroth
Apr 27 2008, 9:04pm
Post #11 of 22
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I mean no offense to any spider-lovers out there, but frankly, spiders give me the creeps. Therefore, I have every confidence that Del Toro will make the spiders look, well, creepy !  Even if they are talking spiders.
Shelob did give out a pathetic little " noooo" after Sam defeated her didn't she? A deep throaty sound?
There's something of everything here, The Shire and the Golden Wood and Gondor and kings' houses and inns and meadows and mountains all mixed.
....and there are Elves when you want them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Formerly A'amel from days gone by.
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Apr 27 2008, 9:16pm
Post #12 of 22
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Book-1sters Vs. Movie-1sters!?!
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So what perspective are we talking about here? The Hobbit and LotR pre-dates all the movie examples of signifigance you could ever want to give. In my view, anyone else's movies are completely irrelavent. It's going to be an adaptation of the Hobbit. Is the suggestion, then, that the story should be changed just because some other, unrelated work that just happens to have come out a bit earlier in this particular format should take precidence over work that itself came much earlier in its original form? I don't think that the short-term view is the right one. In the long run, no one is going to give a rip about any order of release once they have all been in to the post-theatre market for some years. It should be about adding pieces to the canon, Tolkien's canon, and no other, that are of the highest Quality and Integrity possible. That's just my opinion.
As per the possible argument that there will be a significant audience to whom the books are a complete unknown. Well, to that I say "rubbish!" Thomas Jefferson said (likely, he was echoing his hero, Voltaire), in rebuttle to the argument that democracy could not work because of the mob mentality (meaning, stupidity) of the populace, that the requirements and responsibilities placed upon the citizen should not be diminished in response to the reality of the Now; That instead, they should be kept high, and the level of competence of the man on the street should be raised up to meet those lofty goals. He's saying that the average person, regardless of their cast, is not stupid, but merely ignorant and only needs to be educated. But I think the mind-set of today's media outlets is that they treat us as if we are stupid. They want to push as much as possible down to the lowest common denominator. Profits are the primary motive, rather than things like Quality and Integrity. I think the Tolkien canon is owed better than that.
{Sorry for getting on my Bully Pulpit. Nothing personal was intended. This subject just happens to be one of my long-standing peeves.}
-mwirkk :)
(This post was edited by mwirkk on Apr 27 2008, 9:22pm)
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Apr 27 2008, 9:31pm
Post #13 of 22
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Your thought is spot-on, me thinks! :) //
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-mwirkk :)
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Apr 27 2008, 10:36pm
Post #14 of 22
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In the long run, no one is going to give a rip about any order of release, once they have all been in to the post-theatre market for some years. You're quite right. One hundred years from now, if people still watch old films, they may mistakenly believe that Spider-man and Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade cribbed from Jackson's LotR, and not the reverse. Or perhaps those viewers will think that the use of mirrors to suggest a split personality, and scenes of cliff-dangling where characters have to abandon a treasure to live, were significant motifs of late 20th-century and early 21st-century art, indicative of some aspect of society as it then stood.
Even so, they might feel that Raimi and Spielberg, respectively, improved on their "sources". As today there are surely people who have seen all three films and think that Jackson's take on those concepts, homage or not, exceeds their presentation in the earlier films. But we can only speak for ourselves, not for imagined audiences of the future. For me, Jackson's LotR was both a film and an adaptation of Tolkien and deserves to be judged on both terms (though I'll concede that my love of Tolkien's work makes it hard for me to separate the two).
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Apr. 21-27 for "The Uruk-hai".
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stormcrow20
Mithlond
Apr 28 2008, 1:14am
Post #15 of 22
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It's going to be an adaptation of the Hobbit. Is the suggestion, then, that the story should be changed just because some other, unrelated work that just happens to have come out a bit earlier in this particular format should take precidence over work that itself came much earlier in its original form?
What I meant, and what I think SteveDJ was getting at, was not at all suggesting to change the story, only to shoot/film the scene in a different manner than the Potter film, to avoid any visual resemblance.
~~~~~~
Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return.
'Take this ring, master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.'
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N.E. Brigand
Gondolin
Apr 28 2008, 1:17am
Post #16 of 22
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That was my understanding, also. //
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<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!
Join us Apr. 21-27 for "The Uruk-hai".
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Apr 28 2008, 1:24am
Post #17 of 22
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I don't disagree with that. :)
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But would you agree that it doesn't really matter what "we" want, because the films will be made according to the visions created within Wingnut/Weta. Hopefully Lee/Howe(/Naismith?) will have a great deal to say about it. I'll have to dig out my library and see what they might have created in the past on that subject. But, in the end, I have faith in the intentions and integrity of the people involved. Thx!
-mwirkk :)
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stormcrow20
Mithlond
Apr 28 2008, 1:33am
Post #18 of 22
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But would you agree that it doesn't really matter what "we" want, because the films will be made according to the visions created within Wingnut/Weta.
What we (the fans) want does matter to some extent. If I recall correctly, Jackson and crew removed Arwen from Helm's Deep partly due to major fan outcry.
Hopefully Lee/Howe(/Naismith?) will have a great deal to say about it. But, in the end, I have faith in the intentions and integrity of the people involved.
Hopefully, yes....and so do I.
~~~~~~
Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return.
'Take this ring, master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.'
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Apr 28 2008, 1:38am
Post #19 of 22
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But would you agree that it doesn't really matter what "we" want, because the films will be made according to the visions created within Wingnut/Weta.
What we (the fans) want does matter to some extent. If I recall correctly, Jackson and crew removed Arwen from Helm's Deep partly due to major fan outcry.
...is because GdT said that while he was excited to interact with the fan community, he asked that he not be sent casting and plot ideas. If I were in his place, I might have the same view.
Btw- I *am* grateful that the Arwen/HelmsDeep debacle was averted!!
Pax StormCrow! ;)
-mwirkk :)
(This post was edited by mwirkk on Apr 28 2008, 1:41am)
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ShadoFaxs
Ossiriand
Apr 28 2008, 4:01am
Post #20 of 22
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Consider the filmmakers and put your fears to rest.
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Chris Columbus is a hack and no master of cinematic language.
Guillermo del Toro is a talented, visually sophisticated filmmaker.
Have no fears. Nothing in The Hobbit will look or play a thing like the spiders in HP & COS.
FYI, Warner Brothers had tried to lure del Toro to direct the last HP installment.
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 28 2008, 7:04am
Post #21 of 22
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There are legal issues involved with taking suggestions from people not connected with the production. If they use someone's idea, they lay themselves open to a lawsuit if that person claims their idea was used without credit or compensation. Also, the scriptwriters need the freedom to collaborate and create; they cannot be trying to please all the whims of the fans. That's a definite case of too many fingers in the pie.
That's not to say they can't read fan opinions and take note of them. But they can't solicit or accept peoples' suggestions, or discuss them. It's best to talk to each other about our ideas and opinions (which is what these boards are for), and GDT will have plenty of opportunity to gauge all the fan opinion he wants, if he does want it. But he will not be able to specifically engage with us on those topics. We may have some influence somewhere along the line, but we will likely never know the exact extent of it.
Silverlode
"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
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mwirkk
Nargothrond
Apr 28 2008, 7:18am
Post #22 of 22
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-mwirkk :)
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