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leisulin
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Nov 3 2016, 7:28pm
Post #1 of 24
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Faramir, Movie Version
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The biggest problem I have with things they changed from the way they were in the book is how they portrayed Faramir. In the book he's a lively, strong, noble, good-natured, courageous man who is humble and realistic enough to know the Ring is too strong and dangerous for him to mess with, and he doesn't and wouldn't dream of trying to take it by force from Frodo. The movie version of Faramir is a limp sad-sack devoid of mirth and personality, and nobility, who proves by his actions that he's not the man that Faramir-in-the-book is.
That's my biggest beef with the movies, having read the books numerous times before the movies ever came on the scene.
(This post was edited by leisulin on Nov 3 2016, 7:32pm)
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Silverlode
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Nov 4 2016, 6:58am
Post #2 of 24
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A lot of people were disppointed with that.
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There were a lot of cries of character assassination among BookFaramir's fans when the movie came out.
The writers gave their reason in the commentaries; they were afraid that after all the build-up they'd given the Ring, showing how dangerous and alluring it was, that having a character quickly and outright reject the temptation would make it seem no big deal.
Personally, I disagree and would have loved to have seen Faramir get his shining moment from the books as well.
Silverlode
Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 4 2016, 1:39pm
Post #3 of 24
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I'm on the fence about this one. Faramir was one of my favourite characters in the book and I'd love him to have had the chance to be who he is on film. After all, they didn't seem to have a problem showing Aragorn reject the Ring.
But even though the film Faramir isn't 'my' Faramir when it comes to the Ring - or at least, it takes him longer to reach the wisdom book Faramir had in his own nature - I can't dislike the character they developed for the film. So I just have two different Faramirs now and like them both, each in his own context.
The one change I don't forgive - which matters more to me than how long it takes him to reject the Ring - is the pointless torturing of Gollum by his men, which he condones. That remains one of my least favourite films in all six films (that, and Aragorn's behading of the Mouth of Sauron).
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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Ingwion
Lorien
Nov 5 2016, 1:55pm
Post #4 of 24
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The one change I don't forgive - which matters more to me than how long it takes him to reject the Ring - is the pointless torturing of Gollum by his men, which he condones. That remains one of my least favourite films in all six films (that, and Aragorn's behading of the Mouth of Sauron).
I hate that! That is one place were they absolutely pointlessly deviated from the spirit of Tolkien's books. Another one is when Gandalf hits Denethor with his staff after he orders the soldiers to abandon their posts.
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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sparrowruth
Rivendell
Nov 10 2016, 4:35am
Post #5 of 24
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basically every time movie-Faramir comes on screen i want to violently strangle someone. Book-Faramir is one of my favourite characters
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Nov 10 2016, 1:10pm
Post #6 of 24
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Movie-Faramir is much less of a prize for Eowyn, isn't he?
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In the books, you feel like she won the lottery getting to marry that guy. In the movie, the romance (which gets little screen time anyway) is nothing to get excited about.
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Gianna
Rohan
Nov 10 2016, 3:27pm
Post #7 of 24
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That reason that the writers gave
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ruffles my feathers every time. A huge part of Faramir's character was to show that not all humans are completely fallen and corrupt. That some are still capable of nobility.
I don't think Faramir easily rejected the Ring's temptation even in the book. To me it seemed like he struggled hard with the opportunity to show his father he was as faithful as Boromir, but he had the moral strength to make the right decision. "Then my life is forfeit", while somewhat redeeming, isn't quite the shining moment he gets in the book. 
"The men of the East may search the scrolls,
For sure fates and fame,
But the men that drink the blood of God
Go singing to their shame."
-G.K. Chesterton, The Ballad of the White Horse, Book I
------
My fantasy novels
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Ataahua
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Nov 10 2016, 6:17pm
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I figure we do end up with the Faramir of the book;
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we just get to see some of his path to enlightenment and being able to reject the Ring.
Not that his "I'm taking the Ring to Gondor" didn't make me gasp at the time.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Yngwulff
Gondor
Nov 13 2016, 11:06pm
Post #9 of 24
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I liked the EE version better than the studio to be sure.
His little pep talk to Pippin before taking his oath and the Eowyn romance part in the Houses of the healing allows some closure.
“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”
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moreorless
Gondor
Nov 27 2016, 10:25am
Post #10 of 24
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Honestly I think its one of the most interestign aspects of Jacksons films...
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I'm on the fence about this one. Faramir was one of my favourite characters in the book and I'd love him to have had the chance to be who he is on film. After all, they didn't seem to have a problem showing Aragorn reject the Ring.
But even though the film Faramir isn't 'my' Faramir when it comes to the Ring - or at least, it takes him longer to reach the wisdom book Faramir had in his own nature - I can't dislike the character they developed for the film. So I just have two different Faramirs now and like them both, each in his own context.
The one change I don't forgive - which matters more to me than how long it takes him to reject the Ring - is the pointless torturing of Gollum by his men, which he condones. That remains one of my least favourite films in all six films (that, and Aragorn's behading of the Mouth of Sauron).
Obviously as you say he's not the book Faramir but personally I like my adaptations to bring something new to the table as long as its in the general spirit of the original work. In this respect I felt that the changes to Faramir were one of the most interesting parts of Jacksons films and in general I felt they were very successful indeed on their own terms.
As far as that scene with Gollum goes I think its effective in that as with Sam's "sneaking" comment at the pass in the books its a genuine moral failure from the good guys that causes Smeagol's chance at redemption to be snatched away.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 27 2016, 10:54am
Post #11 of 24
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I hadn't thought of it that way but yes, it's an interesting way of looking at it - I think it might grow on me!
I do agree with your general point that it's often the new things that are interesting. I felt that particularly with scenes like Theodred's death and funeral; it happened offstage in the book. Suddenly we were seeing it happen and asking what repercussions it might have. I feel rather the same way about the film version of Aragorn. I like the fact that they had obviously thought about his position - what it might be like for a man to live inside the storyline Tolkien wrote for him.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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moreorless
Gondor
Nov 27 2016, 1:58pm
Post #12 of 24
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The biggest change to Jacksons adaptation...
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I hadn't thought of it that way but yes, it's an interesting way of looking at it - I think it might grow on me!
I do agree with your general point that it's often the new things that are interesting. I felt that particularly with scenes like Theodred's death and funeral; it happened offstage in the book. Suddenly we were seeing it happen and asking what repercussions it might have. I feel rather the same way about the film version of Aragorn. I like the fact that they had obviously thought about his position - what it might be like for a man to live inside the storyline Tolkien wrote for him.
Really I would say the key change to Jacksons adaptation was that there was much less of a divide between the Hobbits and the other "high fantasy" characters. I think that shift was somewhat inevitable as Tolkien achieves much of the divide though literally means(such as giving us a direct view into only the Hobbits thoughts/feelings) but the end result is Jackson looks to humanise the wider cast such as Aragorn, Boromir, Théoden and Faramir giving them more personal arcs.
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Nov 29 2016, 5:29am
Post #13 of 24
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I was taken aback by the changes to Faramir's character but they didn't disappoint me nearly as much as making Aragorn so tentative about being Isildur's Heir. The extended edition made the changes a bit more palatable but I've since found the writer's excuses for character changes to be rather weak. I love the dedication the production crew and cast had to "getting it right" but it felt to me at sporadic times like the writers wanted to tell their own story instead of Tolkien's. They were MUCH worse with this in "The Hobbit" trilogy, possibly because they had less time to hammer at the script?
It felt to me like LOTR was more of a labor of love but TH was more "oh, alright, we'll do it so we can extend our version of the story of the War of the Ring."
In any event, I think David Wenham did a fabulous job with the script and direction he was given.
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RaenMaethor
Registered User
Dec 7 2016, 5:17am
Post #14 of 24
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Movies tend to have a bigger emphasis on character arcs in my opinion, it was up to the filmmakers to add conflict where they felt it was appropriate to the story the movies were telling. Flaws they may be, no movie is perfect.
However, not many people think about it but characters don't necessarily need arcs, especially with films like this having so many characters.
To me Faramir didn't really need any more conflict past his relationship with his father which was much more present in the Return of the King, which in turn made me feel like Faramir had more character in that particular movie.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Dec 7 2016, 5:55pm
Post #15 of 24
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Glad you could join in the discussions. :)
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 7 2016, 6:06pm
Post #16 of 24
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I’ve always been puzzled by the idealization of book Faramir. Faramir is a guerilla leader. That’s not an especially nice thing to be. For example, if you want to know how Faramir treats his prisoners, ask any of his Haradrim captives. If you can’t find any Haradrim captives to ask, then you know how he treats them. (I won’t even mention how guerrillas deal with their own badly wounded comrades on the battlefield.)
Frankly I’m more aghast at book-Faramir’s classic psychological torture of Gollum (and Frodo), than by movie-Faramir’s physical torture of Gollum. Indeed, one imagines physical torture is the only practical way book-Faramir can interrogate Orc prisoners, who as a whole doubtlessly aren’t very responsive to more gentle persuasions. Again, if you want to know how book-Faramir treats his Orc prisoners, just ask one. If you can’t find any to ask, well, Henneth Annun’s location is very diligently and ruthlessly kept a secret from the Enemy, and dead Men, Haradrim, and Orcs tell no tales.
As for the whole Ring Thing, movie-Faramir never does claim the Ring. He does, like movie-Aragorn on Amon Hen, give it a look of awe as any Loremaster would when confronted by a legendary long lost artifact. But like Aragorn he doesn’t claim it. He, like Aragorn, sends it away, in his case to Minas Tirith. Why? Because he loves his brother, and by sending the Ring to Denethor he is completing the "mighty gift" mission... quest... thing that his dear brother was sent on and died for. Now *that’s* nobility! However, once Sam finally gets around to telling him that lust for the Ring is exactly what killed his beloved brother, Faramir lets the hobbits, Gollum, and the Ring go like hot potatoes. (After of course dealing with the Nazgul situation, which would understandably take precedence in any scheme of schooling.)
Personally I really like movie-Faramir, but I realize others’ mileage may vary, and that's okay.
******************************************
"Mister Frodo, hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good frying pan at your side. I’ve been from one side of this garden to the other, I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Providence controlling everything. There's no Music of the Ainur that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Dec 7 2016, 6:07pm)
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RaenMaethor
Registered User
Dec 7 2016, 6:57pm
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Glad to be here.
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RaenMaethor
Registered User
Dec 7 2016, 7:06pm
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Thats actually a good argument for movie Faramir, I do think his motivations are more clear in the extended edition of the Two Towers where you see his conflict trying to please his father in a flashback scene. Otherwise his motivations aren't fleshed out past the fact that he wants more power to Gondor, maybe out of a feeling to aid his country. We don't really see his full motivations until Return of the King.
Additionally, to me he doesn't really come off as a nice guy until towards the end of the Two Towers.
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Dec 7 2016, 7:10pm
Post #19 of 24
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I also really like the movie Faramir. But then again, I had watched the Two Towers movie when I was only still only in book three of the parts of LOTR.
I have to admit I was a little surprised when I read the book and realized how different Faramir was from the movie. 
I am ok with the change in the film, but I realize that that was a huge change in the story for the book readers, and I can understand how frustrating that is too.
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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Darkstone
Immortal
Dec 7 2016, 7:50pm
Post #20 of 24
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Additionally, to me he doesn't really come off as a nice guy until towards the end of the Two Towers.
Jackson and Co. tried to do that with Strider, making it seem like he's in with the Black Riders at first.
And welcome to TORn!
******************************************
"Mister Frodo, hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good frying pan at your side. I’ve been from one side of this garden to the other, I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful Providence controlling everything. There's no Music of the Ainur that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense."
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dormouse
Half-elven
Dec 7 2016, 10:45pm
Post #21 of 24
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That's an interesting way of looking at it, Darkstone...
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I'd never thought of it like that before and you make a good point.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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dormouse
Half-elven
Dec 7 2016, 10:59pm
Post #22 of 24
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I found this comment interesting....
Additionally, to me he doesn't really come off as a nice guy until towards the end of the Two Towers.
At first I thought I didn't agree, because to me he does. That's why I always say that the torturing of Gollum was one of my least favourite scenes across all six films, because it feels so wrong for Faramir. Reading your post, and Darkstone's, I'm wondering if Faramir seems nice to me from his first entry because he's Faramir, and one of my favourite characters from the book. Thinking about his first entry in the film he is quite stiff and formal - and, of course, takes the hobbits prisoner which doesn't help. But then, in the book too he comes in as an unknown quantity - Frodo and Sam are very wary of him and the revelation that he's Boromir's brother is more warning than reassuring.
I like the way they give him the lines about the motivation of the dead soldier in the film. It hints at his thoughtful side which we don't really see until later.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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FarFromHome
Valinor
Dec 8 2016, 10:15am
Post #23 of 24
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[Faramir], like Aragorn, sends [the Ring] away, in his case to Minas Tirith. Why? Because he loves his brother, and by sending the Ring to Denethor he is completing the "mighty gift" mission... quest... thing that his dear brother was sent on and died for. Now *that’s* nobility! I really like your thinking Darkstone. Like you, I've never felt that Faramir was behaving as badly in the movie as some fans believe, because as you say, he doesn't claim the Ring for himself, but sends it away. But I had mostly thought he was trying to please his father, without considering that what he was doing was trying to finish the task that (as he understood it) his beloved brother had died trying to achieve.
Now I see it your way, I'm struck by how well Faramir's understanding of the Ring parallels his brother's, except that Faramir (like Aragorn, as you say) is able to resist its call to claim it for himself.
So when Faramir sends the Ring to Gondor, he is trying to do what he thinks Boromir would have done - just as he does again later in the defence of Minas Tirith, when he tells his father: "Since you are robbed of Boromir, I will do what I can in his stead."
But once he understands the true danger of the Ring, he chooses to let Frodo go, despite knowing that he himself will suffer for his decision. Now it's reminding me of the dying words of Boromir to Aragorn:
Aragorn: I let Frodo go.
Boromir: Then you did what I could not.
Faramir tries at first to do what Boromir hoped to do, but in the end he succeeds in doing what Boromir could not.
They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven
Dec 26 2016, 1:27am
Post #24 of 24
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Faramir of Pete's movie was not the same character as Tolkien had written. Taking Frodo & Sam to Osgiliath was a violation I still have dificulty passing over. All together it is a flaw in the movie that could easily have been avoided. I think the whole thing exists in an attempt to build tension.
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.
At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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