Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Movie Marathon Review: The Battle of the Five Armies Review
First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All

Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 28 2016, 7:31pm

Post #26 of 55 (1036 views)
Shortcut
Less bloat + livelier pacing = better movie. [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course some prefer "more" to "better", and that's okay.

******************************************

Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife



MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien

Nov 29 2016, 7:25am

Post #27 of 55 (986 views)
Shortcut
Very true [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually kind of prefer the theatrical ROTK because the EE goes on far too long and has several scenes which actually hurt the movie in my view (Aragorn/Mouth of Sauron, skullvalanche, ruining the suspense of whether the Dead Men will help).

It's not a stretch to think others might have similar reasons for preferring the TEs.


Noria
Gondor

Nov 29 2016, 12:39pm

Post #28 of 55 (970 views)
Shortcut
RotK EE vs TE [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I actually kind of prefer the theatrical ROTK because the EE goes on far too long and has several scenes which actually hurt the movie in my view (Aragorn/Mouth of Sauron, skullvalanche, ruining the suspense of whether the Dead Men will help).

It's not a stretch to think others might have similar reasons for preferring the TEs.

I do prefer the RoTK EE but I agree that the above detract from the movie and are PJ at his excessive worst. Aragorn and the Mouth of Sauron is un-Tolkien and the skullavalanche and the Pirates of the Anduin scenes are just cheesy.

But then there are the demise of Saruman and the Eowyn/Faramir story and other bits that I love that more than make up for my quibbles.

I don't think there is anything new in TBOTFA EE that I dislike, except maybe Alfrid's death. IMO the TE was too pared down and we should have seen the EE in the threatres.


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 29 2016, 5:31pm

Post #29 of 55 (958 views)
Shortcut
Entirely agree. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
(Aragorn/Mouth of Sauron, skullvalanche, ruining the suspense of whether the Dead Men will help).


The only moment I miss is Aragorn finding Eowyn on the battlefield.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Eruonen
Half-elven


Nov 29 2016, 9:17pm

Post #30 of 55 (922 views)
Shortcut
Why does the Aragorn / Mouth of Sauron scene ruin it? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 29 2016, 9:29pm

Post #31 of 55 (931 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Many object to Aragorn beheading MOS as it's a violation of the rules of parley.

Even Captain Barbossa (a man so evil Hell itself spat him back out) wouldn't do that and he considered them more like guidelines rather than actual rules.

******************************************

Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife



(This post was edited by Darkstone on Nov 29 2016, 9:30pm)


Eruonen
Half-elven


Nov 29 2016, 9:42pm

Post #32 of 55 (922 views)
Shortcut
I am fine with it....he deserved it especially if they thought Frodo killed as described. [In reply to] Can't Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To_RJ_mPNqM

There really was no parley intended - they came knowing they may die and hoped for Sauron's destruction. IF they believed Frodo dead all was lost anyway...though Aragorn held out hope. It was set up as a triggering event for the gates to open.

IN the book, he is intimidated and flees on his horse.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Nov 29 2016, 9:52pm)


Noria
Gondor

Nov 30 2016, 1:13am

Post #33 of 55 (886 views)
Shortcut
It's all abour honour [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To_RJ_mPNqM

There really was no parley intended - they came knowing they may die and hoped for Sauron's destruction. IF they believed Frodo dead all was lost anyway...though Aragorn held out hope. It was set up as a triggering event for the gates to open.

IN the book, he is intimidated and flees on his horse.



Nevertheless, the heir of Elendil should not have beheaded a herald like that – it was ignoble and dishonorable no matter what the provocation. If you listen to the director/writer commentary, it’s clear that Walsh and Boyens got that and PJ didn’t. But he’s all about the visual image and humour anyway.

Nor should Gandalf have struck Denethor. Those kinds of moments were emotionally satisfying and funny, but were not very Tolkien-like.

Occasionally I can be a puristy too, though none of the things mentioned in the last few posts come close to ruining the movie for me. I just accept that in the movieverse Aragorn is not as honourable as he is in the book, although I find movie Aragorn much more interesting and sympathetic.


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 30 2016, 2:51am

Post #34 of 55 (880 views)
Shortcut
For me, [In reply to] Can't Post

the scene slows the story.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 30 2016, 4:37am

Post #35 of 55 (870 views)
Shortcut
It was wrong. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am fine with it....he deserved it especially if they thought Frodo killed as described.


The Mouth of Sauron probably did deserve death, but not for that. He had never even seen Frodo or Sam, much less done them harm. Gandalf understood that very well and had made Frodo understand it. Apparently, in the films, he should have had that same talk with Aragorn.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


OldestDaughter
Rohan


Nov 30 2016, 1:16pm

Post #36 of 55 (848 views)
Shortcut
That's a good one. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink (I am a Pirates fan, and a fan of Captain Barbossa.)

I never had really thought about the way Aragorn beheaded the Mouth of Sauron as being so bad, but now after reading all that you have said, it was a bit of out of character for someone as noble as Aragorn to execute the Mouth of Sauron.




"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."


Eruonen
Half-elven


Nov 30 2016, 3:54pm

Post #37 of 55 (829 views)
Shortcut
At the risk of getting far afield from the thread topic [In reply to] Can't Post

the book does indeed show Gandalf interceding and treating the MofS as a herald. The implied prisoners had not been killed but were being threatened with torture.

Once again, movie plot decision vs book.
So, I understand the objections, but the scene is not a EE wrecker for me. Though maybe on 2nd thought PJ did remove it from the TE for that reason.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Nov 30 2016, 3:56pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 30 2016, 4:04pm

Post #38 of 55 (822 views)
Shortcut
Yes, [In reply to] Can't Post

However, I was more in mind of Gandalf's famous speech to Frodo about 'many who deserve death' versus 'many more who are dead and deserve more life. Can you give it to them?'

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 30 2016, 7:14pm

Post #39 of 55 (814 views)
Shortcut
I've been following this discussion but couldn't really join in.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... because I haven't watched the theatrical version since the EE came out and was finding it hard to remember which scenes were new or extended apart from the ones other people mentioned. I'd have to agree on some of them. Aragorn beheading the Mouth of Sauron went too far for me - the rest of that scene is OK, I think. Similarly with one that hasn't been mentioned this time, Gandalf facing the Witchking. I know a lot of people do object to that. I was pleased to see it because the image of the witchking with his flaming sword is so powerful and the scene does have its roots in the book. Once again, though, I think it goes too far in showing Gandalf fall from Shadowfax and the staff broken in his hand. And I'd agree with you and several others about the skulls. I found that all the additions to the Paths of the Dead grated a bit - Gimli trying not to crack bones particularly - because it felt like the wrong place for humour. Once again it went too far - for me moments like these are the shadow side of Peter Jackson's style, which I just smile at and pass, because the same visual imagination also gave us the Balrog, Lothlorien, Rivendell, the Argonath, the fell beasts - and now Erebor, Dale, Smaug, Laketown and so many other things on a scale another director might not have attempted.

But having started this as someone who prefers the EE I wanted to know why I prefer it, exaggerations or not, and went back to the booklet that came with the DVD set. These are some of the EE scenes/ extended scenes I wouldn't be without....

Saruman
The salute to the dead of Helm's Deep and Eowyn's dream
Gandalf's speech about the decline of Minas Tirith
Frodo and Sam at the crossroads and the king with the crown of flowers
Pippin's conversation with Faramir
Merry's conversation with Eowyn on the way to Minas Tirith
The Houses of Healing
Faramir and Eowyn

Darkstone mentioned preferring quality to quantity (perhaps not in those words). Well, for me these scenes are quality - they're some of my favourite moments in these films (or any films).

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Eruonen
Half-elven


Nov 30 2016, 7:29pm

Post #40 of 55 (809 views)
Shortcut
We all swerved off of BOFA as the thread! ;) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 30 2016, 7:40pm

Post #41 of 55 (797 views)
Shortcut
And I've given an extra swerve.... oops! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 30 2016, 10:20pm

Post #42 of 55 (784 views)
Shortcut
Ironically.... [In reply to] Can't Post

....Jackson said Gandalf's speech about the decline of Minas Tirith was the very first scene he previsualized of the entire trilogy. He also said it was favorite scene in ROTK. He said his favorite scene in TTT was Treebeard's partial recital of the poem The Ent and the Entwife. In FOTR his favorite was the Giftgiving scene.

He cut each of the scenes from their respective TEs.

Indeed these are scenes of high quality. But Jackson, like all great filmmakers, knew when to "kill his babies" in order to improve pacing and flow.

Of course he also said the TEs are for the theater, while the EEs are for when you're sprawled on the couch at home.

I can see that.Wink

******************************************

Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife



Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 30 2016, 10:21pm

Post #43 of 55 (784 views)
Shortcut
Is it time for....pants? /// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************

Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife



Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 30 2016, 10:37pm

Post #44 of 55 (783 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

According to some codes someone cannot use parley to elicit confidential information during negotiations. If so they may either be taken prisoner or executed. So arguably Aragorn was justified when MOS provoked Pippin into revealing Frodo's name.

Arguably.

******************************************

Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife



Eruonen
Half-elven


Nov 30 2016, 11:11pm

Post #45 of 55 (776 views)
Shortcut
Ah, Roberts Rules for Parley subsection IV.A-D ;) [In reply to] Can't Post

Although not yet crowned, the King has capital powers - the MofS was a traitor and he carried out the capital punishment.

So, was Aragorn rash in the movie...yes, but was he within his powers....I would say yes.


(This post was edited by Eruonen on Nov 30 2016, 11:25pm)


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 30 2016, 11:29pm

Post #46 of 55 (769 views)
Shortcut
Isn't it always? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


StingingFly
Lorien


Nov 30 2016, 11:34pm

Post #47 of 55 (769 views)
Shortcut
Perhaps the beheading was unintentional... [In reply to] Can't Post

....Anduril could have been a vorpal sword. Aragorn merely wanted to give the Mouth of Sauron a warning swat and accidentally rolled a 20!


Darkstone
Immortal


Dec 1 2016, 5:02am

Post #48 of 55 (751 views)
Shortcut
"If I am not mistaken, this is the Halfing who stole the keys to my pants right from under the nose of my guards." // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************

Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife



dormouse
Half-elven


Dec 1 2016, 8:52am

Post #49 of 55 (745 views)
Shortcut
"Did I not warn you what would come of dealing with pants?" // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Darkstone
Immortal


Dec 1 2016, 2:29pm

Post #50 of 55 (725 views)
Shortcut
"Now's our chance! Go! Go! Head for the open pants!" // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************

Fimbrethil, Warrior Entwife


First page Previous page 1 2 3 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.