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The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: The Pollantir:
American sibs: has this election strained or broken relationships for you?
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Poll: American sibs: has this election strained or broken relationships for you?
strained but recoverable I hope
just stay off social media!
View Results (33 votes)

Tol Eressea

Nov 10 2016, 11:44pm

Post #26 of 43 (632 views)
woke up restless at 6am [In reply to] Can't Post

... and looked at NPR's website to see what happened...

then spent the next half day on facebook blogging and reblogging.

ANd creating Piccard, Thor, Dr. Who, and Star Wars memes.

Most of my facebook folks tend to be liberal and educated. There are a few who are intelligent and very conservative. Some who just got stuck on one single issue and couldn't look at the big picture (candidate a is pro choice, candidate b is a jerk... let's go for b).

I don't know if anyone unfriended me... oh well.

Tol Eressea

Nov 10 2016, 11:48pm

Post #27 of 43 (629 views)
you may have to build a wall [In reply to] Can't Post

around NZ...

to keep the Americans out.

Funniest meme I found was the Canadian border patrol one, Mounty on a moose turning us US refugees back...


Where's the Fellowship when you need it?


Nov 11 2016, 4:17pm

Post #28 of 43 (612 views)
I agree, it's worse post-election [In reply to] Can't Post

and I fear is only going to become more so.


Nov 11 2016, 5:15pm

Post #29 of 43 (609 views)
Not really [In reply to] Can't Post

I already know which of my friends and relatives philosophically agree with me and which do not and vice versa. Basically relations have not gotten any more strained than usual.


Nov 11 2016, 6:28pm

Post #30 of 43 (612 views)
Plenty of people are upset already [In reply to] Can't Post

I keep telling people it's not the end of the world. This too shall pass.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 11 2016, 9:17pm)


Nov 11 2016, 6:34pm

Post #31 of 43 (608 views)
Hubby vs. daughters [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I can honestly say that I didn't vote for either candidate. Hubby voted for Trump, & both daughters voted Hillary. Of course, in Oklahoma there was really no question who would carry the state. So far Hubby & daughters have disagreed but not had any falling out. I've been disagreeing with other friends/Trump supporters for some time now; the good news is we're still friends. Then again, I don't have a Facebook account and have largely avoided sites that would cause massive arguments to break out.

As I said on another post, this is NOT the end of the world. I'm more concerned with the fact that this looks like the year 2000 all over again. We as a nation are almost evenly divided, which to me is a bigger deal. What I wouldn't give for a REAL third-party option! A common-sense, middle of the road third-party that isn't saddled with the political baggage of the other two. But the GOP and DNC will make sure such a thing doesn't happen, which is too bad. Maybe I'll write an essay....

(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 11 2016, 9:17pm)

N.E. Brigand

Nov 11 2016, 11:12pm

Post #32 of 43 (589 views)
Has the internet hurt or helped? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not on social media like Facebook, but what I observe in the online comments section of news articles is that when a false story is posted, that any attempt to show, by reference to fact-checking or conspiracy-debunking websites like Politifact or Snopes, that the story is false, is met by flat assertions that those sites are biased.

Beyond that, fact-checking stories, perhaps because they are less flashy, garner much less interest than hoaxes. I'm sure someone else can post a case of Democratic bias in this regard, but one example that lately came to my attention is that, just prior to the election, a bogus story claiming that Pope Francis had endorsed Donald Trump was shared on Facebook by nearly one million people, while the Snopes page debunking that story was shared by fewer than forty thousand people.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 12 2016, 12:36am)

Superuser / Moderator

Nov 12 2016, 12:42am

Post #33 of 43 (590 views)
Biased and/or judgmental comments continue to be edited [In reply to] Can't Post

Please don't get Annael's thread locked. So many people have found it possible to discuss her poll without being judgmental, please don't ruin the discussion for them.

It's TOTALLY understandable that there are lots of things to talk about, and emotions to be expressed, about the election, but TORn is not the place because it's impossible to do so without making someone feel unwelcome. If you can't resist sharing biased comments, no matter what end of the political spectrum you're on, please do it via PM, email, or on a site whose purpose is to discuss these things.



Nov 12 2016, 4:11am

Post #34 of 43 (581 views)
just a note on the division [In reply to] Can't Post

only about half of the people who could have voted did. The biggest division seems to be between the concerned (of whatever stripe) and the apathetic!


Nov 12 2016, 4:18am

Post #35 of 43 (575 views)
well in my case [In reply to] Can't Post

the Internet has hurt, in that people sometimes share opinions in a stronger way than they might in a personal conversation.

But still, it's not the people with whom I completely disagree that have surprised me. For instance today I suggested on Facebook that demonizing "the other" is not the best way to go, and got three angry responses in a row from a good friend who is obviously way too upset to accept such an idea, not yet anyway.


Nov 12 2016, 4:39am

Post #36 of 43 (576 views)
I think any 'first past the post' [In reply to] Can't Post

system is a challenge. It can be very difficult to feel that your voice counts under this kind of setup.
I feel very lucky that we have a proportional system in NZ now. I well remember when it was the old FPP system, and two main parties vying for control, with smaller parties having no chance.
Now, at least, I feel like my two votes really do count - one for a party, and one for a candidate in my electorate. I can contribute to a party of my choice (hopefully) gaining enough of a proportion of votes to represent me in parliament. I can also vote for the person I feel best represents my electorate. I can split my vote between parties as I wish, and really appreciate having this option. It doesn't mean I get the result I necessarily want, but at least I can feel my voting has some sort of impact.
It feels to me that a proportional system helps to reduce some of that 'this vs that' one or the other thinking.

Superuser / Moderator

Nov 12 2016, 6:03am

Post #37 of 43 (566 views)
I've been so impressed with the reforms NZ has made [In reply to] Can't Post

Through B.G. I've learned about the proportional system NZ has, and I'm so impressed that the people, and those in government (even though some probably had to be dragged kicking and screaming), were brave and independent enough to make those kinds of reforms to your political system. Tax reform in NZ is another good example. Good on Kiwis for accomplishing those things. I only wish we could accomplish some of the same here in the U.S..


Nov 12 2016, 6:25am

Post #38 of 43 (563 views)
It is a challenge [In reply to] Can't Post

to have some sort of political discourse on TORn.
I don't think I can actually do it and remain within the Terms of Service.
I am really struggling with this one.
I appreciate the work that you do to keep it civil. Thank you.

Superuser / Moderator

Nov 12 2016, 9:34pm

Post #39 of 43 (521 views)
The proportional system [In reply to] Can't Post

has also moved both of the main parties close to the centre, leaving the smaller parties to be further to the left or right. While those smaller parties are necessary for coalition governments, having the main parties be wary about moving too far left or right has given us quite a stable 'flavour' of government over the years.

It also means that the main parties have to work harder to differentiate themselves from the other - a task which Labour keeps struggling with. Unimpressed

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Nov 13 2016, 12:52am)

Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea

Nov 13 2016, 12:41am

Post #40 of 43 (514 views)
Already strained, but not broken [In reply to] Can't Post

The election was just a continuation of what was already being said around the Thanksgiving table.

What did change with this election was how our family understood the the priorities of others. And we now know who will need our help. That is what we will be focusing on. So I wouldn't say broken relationships but we've prioritized them differently. Some folks will not be getting as much time as others. Some conversations will be more direct because I"m not wasting time with some people anymore. I'll listen to anyone with a good argument, but I'm done with the sound bite people. They get 5 minutes where I would have spent 10. Sometimes I just smile and walk on by and find the people who give me joy.


Nov 13 2016, 3:04am

Post #41 of 43 (501 views)
Funny you say that, because me too [In reply to] Can't Post

On the one hand, there's Glenn Beck, former very conservative guy who's become more moderate/liberal, saying we all need to listen to each other, and he said that so many times in a row on election night, I stopped listening to him. Smile

But I agree with him in principle. But not with sound bite swallowers or hoax-swallowers. "Hillary is an alien from Jupiter; Trump is the reincarnation of King Tut." Sound silly? I hope so. So do most of the sound bites I hear some people parrot and repost on social media without giving them a nanosecond of thought about how ridiculous they are, and those people just aren't worth taking seriously. Talk to them about the weather or something else, but don't waste time listening to them. In the past I would have, thinking I might get them to see some reason, but not anymore.

Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea

Nov 13 2016, 3:25am

Post #42 of 43 (498 views)
Exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

Funny who is saying we have to listen to each other after the thing is over.

But it makes for a really long Thanksgiving or Christmas visit talking about the weather for 3 days. Maybe I should message DanielB for some really good weather stories! Smile


Nov 13 2016, 3:03pm

Post #43 of 43 (486 views)
I'd like to share something a friend wrote that offers perspective [In reply to] Can't Post

(I see a lot of this kind of thing being posted on progressive sites; you who frequent conservative sites, is anyone making a similar effort?)

When something is whole, by definition it is unchanging and complete. So when you split something into two halves — yin/yang — it upsets the equilibrium of wholeness. This starts both halves chasing after each other as they seek a new balance with each other.

The political left and right are not separate entities but two aspects of one whole seeking a new balance to bring change. Seeing them in a circle demonstrates their interdependent relationship, how they swirl into and anchor one another, and how one cannot exist without the other. Progressivism can be expansive without flying away because conservatism anchors it; conservatism can be stable without stagnating because progressivism challenges it to grow. Each is relative to the other. Conservatism is like the roots of a plant; progressivism is like the foliage.

As humanity has evolved, many views once embraced by conservatives (such as the validity of slavery and monarchy) have mostly fallen by the wayside, and once-liberal views are now mainstream or conservative (such as support for representative government). Progressives are the gas pedal and conservatives are the brakes. To take a journey, we need the gas pedal far more often than the brakes, but without brakes, we’d be in trouble.

As progressives and conservatives seek balance with each other, a new order is formed. When they conflict, working against each other, it is like using the gas and brake pedals at the same time, making for a jerky ride. Another analogy is our right and left legs working against one other. How much better it is when they complement — then we can move forward.

Some people are more right-brained, some are more left-brained, and some are balanced. However, all people can benefit from better integrating their right and left brains, allowing for a free exchange of information between them so that the brain as a whole can function more effectively. The political left and right can also benefit from integration. Extremes result when one side tries to function without being balanced by the other; they exclude a large part of reality. Extremes distort; the path of evolution is one of integrating opposites, which reduces extremes.

Paradoxically, opposite extremes are similar to each other. In politics, fascism is the extreme right and communism is the extreme left. They are archenemies, but both are oppressive in their totalitarianism.

Similarly, the extreme masculine (the “tail” of the white half of the yin/yang symbol) moves into the feminine (the black half). If a person tries to move away from the feminine by becoming hypermasculine, he tends to meet the feminine again on the other side. For instance, highly aggressive men sometimes become highly submissive in the bedroom in an effort to balance themselves and find relief from their extremity. A majority of male crossdressers are heterosexual, and many are macho in their usual persona. Extreme feminists sometimes adopt a masculine persona. Bullies sometimes become crybabies when they go off the deep end, and victims sometimes commit violence when they can’t take it anymore.

To be whole individually, we need to honor both sides within us. Collectively, we need the best of both the right and left to be whole and to move forward constructively. The truth is a collection of all individual truths, assembled in proper proportion; we need everyone’s truths to make up the truth.

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