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Annael
Immortal
Nov 4 2016, 5:24pm
Post #1 of 43
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American sibs: has this election strained or broken relationships for you?
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I've been distressed not only by the virulence of the campaign - the worst in my memory, and I've been voting since 1970 - but by the internal splits that I see happening on both sides. I stopped following several people on Facebook for the duration because I got tired of them beating their particular drums (even when I agreed with them), and one person I "unfriended" altogether because he seemed bent on arguing with every single post or comment I made. Worse than that, I've lost respect for some people because they aren't thinking critically and researching stuff, just swallowing what they're told by their biased-news-outlet-of-choice.
As you can see I'm trying not to be specific here. I suspect this may be happening all along the spectrum of political leanings, not just between those of known "opposite" affiliation but between those who used to agree. Very sad. How can we come back from this?
NOT trying to stir things up; admins feel free to delete if I inadvertently cause a firestorm. My hope is that we can just share how the election is affecting us personally. (I didn't sleep last night . . .)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 4 2016, 5:35pm
Post #2 of 43
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I've managed to avoid most potential disagreements with friends and relatives on political grounds during this election season. It helps that my most rabidly right-wing sibling lives out-of-state.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Nov 4 2016, 10:55pm
Post #3 of 43
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Especially this point you made:
Worse than that, I've lost respect for some people because they aren't thinking critically and researching stuff, just swallowing what they're told by their biased-news-outlet-of-choice. There are people that I used to respect as "normally intelligent" who repeat the stupidest, non-fact-based statements as if they are indeed facts, and I wonder if they are also members of the Flat Earth Society and think Abe Lincoln was a Martian invader. It seems we all ought to exercise a little bit of filtering, given how many unfiltered crazy voices fill the internet and airwaves now, so when people just parrot what they've heard, I really lose respect for them in other areas of judgment too.
It's been a bruising election year that can't end soon enough. But I don't think it's just America; I've heard many Brits feel beat up by the Brexit vote. And many Scots lost friends over their independence referendum. Democracy is supposed to be a great thing, and it sure beats tyranny, but it can also bring out the worst in people.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 4 2016, 11:33pm
Post #4 of 43
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I feel exactly the same about the way things are going here.....
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(in the UK). It's the depth of bitterness. People don't just disagree any more, there seems to be a growing number who positively despise the side they're not voting for. And I keep thinking the same as you - where do we go from here. How can we overcome this?
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Annael
Immortal
Nov 5 2016, 5:46am
Post #5 of 43
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"They say it's easier to dupe someone than to convince them they've been duped." That certainly seems to be true.
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Annael
Immortal
Nov 5 2016, 2:26pm
Post #6 of 43
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of being able to talk about this with my alt-right cousins and others. No, this has hit closer to home with people normally of "my" persuasion not only disagreeing but not being respectful about it.
I know there's a human tendency to keep finding differences even in groups that seem to have very similar values & beliefs . . . as we see in religion with different denominations splitting over time into more and more subsects. Right now I see both major parties in the US dealing with a major split in the ranks. Acrimoniously.
(This post was edited by Annael on Nov 5 2016, 2:28pm)
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Ethel Duath
Half-elven
Nov 8 2016, 12:22am
Post #7 of 43
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I've somehow avoided any rifts, at least so far--
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mostly because I'm not on social media, and my immediate family is either on the same page, or is disgusted with the whole deal, and so not into persuading, or are being very circumspect for the specific reason of not creating rifts. My extended family lives far away, but I think for the most part are avoiding flame wars from what I can tell. I hope no rifts will occur there, but I can't be sure. I do have a ready answer, though, just in case someone insists on discussing it with me: "Pat Paulsen for President!" (I should take a vote on who here remembers that . . . )
I am astounded, much like you, on what is happening. I have no explanation for it, but I find it very troubling. I like to understand people and motivations, but this really stumps me. I wonder if it boils down to fear (or fears). That's the factor that seems to make people behave and think in ways they ordinarily would not. But fear of exactly what, that could be this powerful, I'm not exactly sure.
Does anyone here think that "the internet" and all the unvetted and unvettable news stories of the more inflammatory type could be a strong factor in this? I've heard it said, but I'm not sure that's enough to explain it all.
Basically, I'm just really sad.
* Off to watch ancient Paulsen videos on YouTube to cheer me up (maybe).*
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Nov 8 2016, 1:34am
Post #8 of 43
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Mostly because I don't talk about it too much and I mostly just delete the political stuff that keeps showing up on my Facebook news feed without responding. What has upset me the most about this election season is the vandalism and assaults that I've read about in the news. Hopefully things will calm down after tomorrow.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 8 2016, 3:43am
Post #9 of 43
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It's led to some very interesting discussions...
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...and I've learned some things, and (I hope) made some points.
The most regrettable thing has been the amount of misinformation and outright lies floating around. We can certainly disagree about philosophies and beliefs, but there are verifiable facts. Some of the conspiracy theories floating around are just crazy, and easily disprovable, but those who are dedicated to them simply reject any challenge. There are articles posted from non-existent newspapers, for instance, that some people accept as evidence. And people deny saying things that there is absolute proof (videos, audio, actual documents) that they said. It's very distressing.
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Starling
Half-elven
Nov 8 2016, 5:55am
Post #10 of 43
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You can all come and stay with me at the bottom of the world. The spare room is small but there is always room for TORn-sibs. x
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 8 2016, 7:46am
Post #11 of 43
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Canada has been competing openly for refugees in the event of an election gone badly wrong, but my family would head for NZ in a heartbeat!
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor
Nov 8 2016, 11:49am
Post #12 of 43
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Because there's no 'if' about it for me, no matter what the results are.
And I like sourcing fleece 'locally' when possible. ;)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 8 2016, 1:25pm
Post #13 of 43
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Less than an hour after the polls opened I voted on my way home from work. The lovely Tayna will do so sometime after she gets up.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Nov 8 2016, 4:16pm
Post #14 of 43
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Well, I'm done voting and Yay! the PTA bake sale was there as usual. All polling places should have bake sales - it's hard to be stressed out while standing in front of a table full of brownies, cookies and cakes, saying, "I'll have one of those, and one of those, and one of those...
Cup of tea and Lord of the Rings movie, anyone?
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Annael
Immortal
Nov 8 2016, 5:02pm
Post #15 of 43
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the drawback to mail-in ballots!
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I voted a week ago, but dropping the ballot off in the post office box is not the same as walking into a polling station and out again sporting the "I voted!" sticker.
So long since I've done that, I'd forgotten about the bake sales!
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Starling
Half-elven
Nov 8 2016, 5:19pm
Post #16 of 43
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Sounds fab!
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Riven Delve
Tol Eressea
Nov 9 2016, 12:29am
Post #18 of 43
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My polling place is in a church where they always give away cookies and coffee to voters. Which comes in handy, like that Hanging Chads election when I stood in line to vote for an hour and a half! Today I went past another polling place in a church where they were giving away chili! Voting can be hard on the waistline here! 
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Nov 9 2016, 12:52am
Post #19 of 43
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The baked goods are no more and I've had to change into my sweatpants. 
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 9 2016, 2:50pm
Post #20 of 43
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...suddenly I feel like I'm living in a Tim Burton movie, where Jack Nicholson is simultaneously the President of the United States of America and a used-car salesman. It's only a matter of time before Mars attacks!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 10 2016, 5:20pm
Post #21 of 43
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...the U.S. presidential election of 2016 is, technically, not yet over. The Electoral College does not meet in their individual states to cast their ballots until December 19. Three states have not yet reported their election results: Arizona, Minnesota and New Hampshire. The theoretical count of Sen. Clinton's electoral votes could rise to as much as 259 votes (of course, Donald Trump's 279 votes could rise as well).
The individual members of the Electoral College have the ability to abstain or defect, transferring their votes to another candidate. That is highly unlikely to happen--especially in enough numbers to affect the election results. However, this has already been the most unprecedented presidential election in U.S. history, including the 2000 election. I can't discount the possibility of an upset, however unlikely.
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 10 2016, 5:30pm)
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Altaira
Superuser
Nov 10 2016, 6:43pm
Post #22 of 43
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A few posts have been deleted from this thread
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The rest of the thread is fine, but a few posts couldn't resist passing judgment on the election results.
For the umpteenth time, PLEASE can we all remember that our TORnsibs come from all walks of life: all races, religions and, yes, political persuasions. By injecting your own judgment on the election results into this, or any other thread, you may be making someone here feel unwelcome, and/or risking starting a flame war. This has been a divisive election, to be sure. As with every election, some people are not happy, some people are happy, and many are in-between. ALL OF THEM on this site share a love of Tolkien that brings us all together, and ALL OF THEM are welcome here.
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Altaira
Superuser
Nov 10 2016, 8:12pm
Post #23 of 43
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With people closer to me, I've finally learned (sometimes the hard way), that it doesn't matter to me whether they agree with me politically. I just enjoy the discussion and like learning about why someone wants to vote a certain way.
I've definitely encountered people who 'drink the kool-aid' on both sides. Either they don't do any research, or they only read and listen to news and opinions that reinforce the way they think and feel. While I don't follow that approach myself, I can see why they would - venturing out of one's comfort zone is difficult, and can often make the blood boil. Some people just can't bring themselves to do it, or don't care enough about politics to make it a bigger part of their lives, but I'd never lose respect for them because of it. There are so many other facets to that person that I like that are outside of their political views that are just as, if not vastly, more important to me. Paraphrasing something Obama said in the past few days: politics is a part of life, it's not all of life.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not perfect. The more removed a person is to me, the more I tend to be judgmental (i.e., a blogger vs. a friend). Since there's no investment in a personal relationship, it's easy to be judgmental, and many opinion pieces are written to elicit a response. My own practice is to read and listen to a variety of opinions: far left, far right, and everything in between. I'd be lying if I said I didn't passionately disagree with some of the comments, and commentators, I've seen, but I'm a glutton for information (or, you might say, punishment ), and I keep going back for more.
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Ingwion
Lorien
Nov 10 2016, 9:36pm
Post #24 of 43
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But I did have strongish views in the election, and also vehemently supported Brexit. For Brexit especially, I spent weeks debating with Remain supporters, but thankfully we were all good friends and enjoyed debating for the sake of debating, no matter how heated it got, although sometimes there was a lot of tension. Speaking about the USA election specifically, not being American I've not been as passionate and less arguments have arose as a result. So no, not really.
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Nov 10 2016, 9:53pm
Post #25 of 43
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I think the strains are worse, especially because all the pollsters predicted the opposite outcome, so even Trump supporters are surprised they won and have to adjust to that rather than the defeat they were expecting, and the people who expected to celebrate are faced with an unforeseen defeat.
I've noticed a few friends on Facebook announcing they were unfriending people over flame wars and disagreements, and that's on both sides. One friend posted she had unfriended half of her family memberrs, but I know her family is very close, so I'm sure that's temporary.
On the plus side, one colleague at work who was basically a minority of one has been willing to set aside the election results and remain friends with the rest of us. Politics is just something we'll never, ever discuss again. But there are other things in life.
It's always tempting to have a short memory and speak of the present in superlatives: "This is the most divisive election I've ever seen." But even with that precaution, I think it really is.
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