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noWizardme
Half-elven
Nov 4 2016, 12:48pm
Post #1 of 16
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Eagles as transport - where did the idea come from?
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From here, possibly? [Caption - the current pub sign for The Eagle and Child Pub in St Giles, Oxford, one of Tolkien's locals. The sign shows an eagle in flight, using a sling to carry a baby in its talons. Photographed by me, 2016] The Eagle and Child has had at least 3 signs in the 20+ years I've lived near Oxford. The current eagle looks like it is standing in for the delivery duties usually give to storks, and is being as badass as possible about it to cover up its embarrassment. If I remember correctly, an earlier sign looked much more like an illustration of the Greek myth about the abduction of Ganymede (https://en.wikipedia.org/...Ganymede_(mythology)). Ganymede was a young lad who was carried off by either an eagle under Zeus' orders, or by Zeus himself in the form of an eagle. In my memory, the 'Ganymede' baby in the old pub sign seemed to have mixed feelings about the whole adventure, as perhaps well he might. But that doesn't seem to be the origin of the pub sign, which seems to go indirectly back to Saxon myths about eagles as baby-snatchers: perhaps a matter of interest to Tolkien professionally. The pub (as is pretty common for English pubs) derives its sign from devices of the local nobility - in this case the Stanley family, the Earls of Derby. How the Earls of Derby end up with an eagle and child in their arms is a pretty good story:
Many legends exist about the origin of the eagle and child crest of the Stanleys which was probably taken from the crest of the Lathoms. One account tells of a Sir Thomas Lathom who greatly desired a male heir, but his wife was advanced in years and their only child was a daughter. One day, he and his wife were walking in Tarlescough Woods, a wild section of his estate when they heard an infant crying. Servants were sent to investigate and they returned with a young male child which they had found lying in the grass below an eagle's eyre. In another version, it was discovered in an eagle's nest. The child was well dressed, and Sir Thomas and his wife decided to bring it up as their own son, naming him 'Oskatel'. The tradition of a child being found unharmed in an eagle's nest is very old and exists in folklore in many parts of Europe, notably in Norway and France. King Pepin was said to have discovered a child in similar circumstances, and another tale exists that King Alfred the Great found a child after hearing it crying while he was out hunting. When his servants investigated, they discovered a male child in an eagle's eyre, dressed in purple with gold bracelets on its arms (the mark of Saxon nobility). The King named it 'Nestingium' and had it baptized and educated. It has been suggested that these old tales gave Sir Thomas Lathom the idea in the first place, when despairing of a son by his wife, he is said to have had an intrigue with a young gentlewoman whom he kept in a house nearby. She gave him a son, and his problem was to get it recognized and accepted by his wife in such a way that her mind would be free of jealousy. He thereupon arranged the whole thing, and the child was brought up as her adopted son and made heir to part of his estate. excerpt from The House of Stanley from the 12th Century by Peter Stanley, retrieved from here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/...age/stanleycrest.htm From babies being carried by eagles to dwarves, hobbits and wizards getting a ride doesn't seem to far a jump to me, though of course I can't prove anything. Actually of course no real-life eagle could manage it - an eagle can carry about a third of its body weight (https://www.nationaleaglecenter.org/eagle-diet-feeding/) so perhaps 1 - 2 kg (roughly 2- 5 lbs).
~~~~~~ Volunteers are still needed to lead chapters for our read-thorough of Book VI ROTK (and the appendices if there are sufficient volunteers) http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=909709#909709 A wonderful list of links to Book I - Book V chapters in this read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
(This post was edited by noWizardme on Nov 4 2016, 12:49pm)
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enanito
Rohan
Nov 4 2016, 2:08pm
Post #2 of 16
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I've heard there's differences between what an African or European swallow can carry, how about Eagles? Those Valinorean Eagles might have a better weight ratio...
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Nov 4 2016, 3:34pm
Post #5 of 16
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Oh, here we go, all Monty Python now.
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But what about storks delivering babies when they're born? Do storks drop them off, and then eagles snatch them? Do parents get to enjoy their newborns at all, or does it all go to the birds? I think there's a good reason to have babies well away from birds. Or to have a shotgun handy when you give birth.
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Meneldor
Valinor
Nov 4 2016, 3:43pm
Post #6 of 16
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There's a verse in Exodus where God says to Moses,
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"Did I not bear Israel out of Egypt on the wings of eagles?" If you choose to interpret that literally, it makes for quite the amazing mental image of the exodus.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Nov 4 2016, 3:59pm
Post #7 of 16
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"Haast, thou's slain the Jabberwock!"
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What a fantastic creature that must have been! Oh and I notice Australia only has the Little Eagle of Australia (Hieraaetus morphnoides) But more than likely Australia has an eagle that is extravagantly venomous, or can drink more beer.....
~~~~~~ The Sixth read-through of LOTR continues until Christmas. All chapters now have volunteer leaders. Schedule here; http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=916172#916172 A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Nov 4 2016, 8:33pm
Post #10 of 16
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We generally have shotguns on hand for every occasion.
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Births, deaths, marriages, special sales on lattes at Starbuck's, and especially when your in-laws visit. A shotgun is almost as versatile in solving situations as duct tape.
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Ingwion
Lorien
Nov 5 2016, 1:05pm
Post #11 of 16
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That would take a whole lot of eagles!
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens. It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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swordwhale
Tol Eressea
Nov 11 2016, 1:30am
Post #12 of 16
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We have many eagles here on the Susquehanna River and Chespeake Bay. No carrying off of babies, though they could carry off your cat. Or break both bones in your arm if you decided to hold one...
bigger on the inside... Na 'Aear, na 'Aear! Mýl 'lain nallol, I sûl ribiel a i falf 'loss reviol... To the sea, to the sea, the white gulls are crying, the wind is blowing and the white foam is flying... Member of Manure Movers Local 101, Raptor Wranglers & Rehab, and Night Fury Trainers Assoc. Owned by several cats and a very small team of maniacal sled dogs... sorry Radagast, those rabbits were delicious...
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Nov 11 2016, 3:43am
Post #13 of 16
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The four things necessary for a civilized life
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1. Duct Tape 2. Bailing Wire 3. WD-40 4. A good pump-action 12-gauge shotgun.... ( the click-clack is usually good enough )
‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . . But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?' Gandalf to Denethor
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Nov 11 2016, 12:37pm
Post #14 of 16
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I was playing an online game, and someone was asking for help in public chat since they were having various technical issues. Several people suggested they clear their cache, and one person observed, "Clearing cache: the duct tape of video games."
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Nov 11 2016, 1:51pm
Post #16 of 16
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As is WD-40 (google it for dozens of uses)
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‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . . But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?' Gandalf to Denethor
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