Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
The Mouth of Sauron, Movie Version

leisulin
Registered User

Nov 3 2016, 9:13pm

Post #1 of 20 (2428 views)
Shortcut
The Mouth of Sauron, Movie Version Can't Post

To prove I'm not just a nay-sayer who can only find fault, I thought what they did with the Mouth of Sauron in the movie (in the Extended Version) was brilliant!! That cavernous, mouth full of those hideously festering black teeth, oozing with dark saliva and grinning obnoxiously several times after saying the various unpleasant things he has to say, like how much pain Frodo supposedly was made to suffer when they tortured him to death! And the Mouth's helmet covers the rest of his face so that all you see of him is the leering, hideous Mouth. All in all, I think that scene was brilliantly done in the Movie Version. Smile


OldestDaughter
Rohan


Nov 4 2016, 12:13pm

Post #2 of 20 (2348 views)
Shortcut
I agree! [In reply to] Can't Post

When I first saw the Extended Edition of Return of the King with my mom, we were both very revolted by how his appearance looked.(And that is good, because he needed to be creepy!) And the voice worked as well, that gravely, deep, scratchy tone.

Would of been great if in the theatrical cut, but it made it a real treat for the Extended version!Smile




"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."


emre43
Rohan

Nov 4 2016, 1:40pm

Post #3 of 20 (2340 views)
Shortcut
I couldn't disagree more [In reply to] Can't Post

His title 'Mouth of Sauron', is not because he has a big mouth. It's because he is Sauron's messenger. Aragorns beheading of him was also completely out of touch not just with his character, but also Tolkien's writings.

I never killed a man who didn't need killing
- Clay Allison


leisulin
Registered User

Nov 4 2016, 1:54pm

Post #4 of 20 (2335 views)
Shortcut
eh? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm surprised you would think I don't realize why they call him the Mouth of Sauron. I simply thought that the hugeness of his festering mouth made his repulsiveness that much greater.

As for Aragorn's beheading of him, you may well be right, but that doesn't detract, at least for me, from how well done was their portrayal of The Mouth!


emre43
Rohan

Nov 4 2016, 2:01pm

Post #5 of 20 (2328 views)
Shortcut
Fair enough [In reply to] Can't Post

It just seems to me that PJ and co. take things too literally. His names 'The Mouth', let's give him a big mouth. Saruman once called Radagast a fool, let's make him so foolish that he's unnaturally foolish to the point of ludicrously.

I never killed a man who didn't need killing
- Clay Allison


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Nov 4 2016, 10:22pm

Post #6 of 20 (2280 views)
Shortcut
Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post

Movie version was brilliant!

Question - Is he supposed to be a man in the film or an Orc?? In the book he was a man - But in the film it looks like he would be an Orc underneath the helmet... ?



Cool


leisulin
Registered User

Nov 4 2016, 10:30pm

Post #7 of 20 (2277 views)
Shortcut
man or orc? [In reply to] Can't Post

Weren't the orcs originally a type of elf that Sauron "transmuted" (or "corrupted" or "bred" or some such word, possibly genetically) into orcs?
The "man" that the Mouth had become seems to me a lot like a similar perversion of healthy men into........whatever term/category you'd like to use to fit The Mouth of Sauron....


Ingwion
Lorien


Nov 5 2016, 1:49pm

Post #8 of 20 (2241 views)
Shortcut
Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

Never really decided whether orcs were corrupted elves or corrupted men. Towards the end of his life Tolkien realised that if the orcs were corrupted elves it would mean orcs were immortal. So either Iluvatar directly changed their fate or they actually were corrupted Men. He never really decided for certain.


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Ingwion
Lorien


Nov 5 2016, 1:51pm

Post #9 of 20 (2242 views)
Shortcut
The Mouth of Sauron was well done. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think that maybe his actual mouth was emphasised a bit too much.

Welcome to the boards leisulin! Smile


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Yngwulff
Gondor


Nov 7 2016, 10:52pm

Post #10 of 20 (2191 views)
Shortcut
Black numenorean iirc [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Weren't the orcs originally a type of elf that Sauron "transmuted" (or "corrupted" or "bred" or some such word, possibly genetically) into orcs?
The "man" that the Mouth had become seems to me a lot like a similar perversion of healthy men into........whatever term/category you'd like to use to fit The Mouth of Sauron....


I remember him being known as a Black Numenorean

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”



Ingwion
Lorien


Nov 7 2016, 11:50pm

Post #11 of 20 (2182 views)
Shortcut
Yep [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you're right. I wonder how a man like that became so trusted by Sauron?


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 8 2016, 9:12am

Post #12 of 20 (2169 views)
Shortcut
Probably used rather than trusted.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Or 'trusted' with the arrogance of power - Sauron assuming his servants will do as they're told because they fear him too much to do anything else.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Ingwion
Lorien


Nov 8 2016, 5:00pm

Post #13 of 20 (2152 views)
Shortcut
Hmmm yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I wonder why Sauron didn't use a Ringwraith to speak for him instead? Surely a Nazgul would be a better "negotiator"? Or maybe the Nazgul can't speak...


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


dormouse
Half-elven


Nov 8 2016, 5:18pm

Post #14 of 20 (2149 views)
Shortcut
I think the Nazgul can speak..... [In reply to] Can't Post

...or at least, the one who asked the Farmer Maggot for news of 'Baggins' could - and didn't one speak to the Gaffer? There's also the messenger that went to the dwarves and offered rings in exchange for news - I've always thought that was a Nazgul.

I'm guessing it's just a different role in Sauron's hierarchy. Nazgul go out into Middle-earth (and their service is generally Ring-related). The Mouth is based at Barad Dur and acts as the spokesman.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Nov 8 2016, 5:29pm

Post #15 of 20 (2141 views)
Shortcut
We can give you Rings. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
There's also the messenger that went to the dwarves and offered rings in exchange for news - I've always thought that was a Nazgul.


Surely not. I can't see the Nine being sent to offer friendship to the Dwarves or to any of the Free Peoples. It just doesn't seem that it would be in their skill set. And if the offer did come from one of the Nazgűl then I think Tolkien would have made that more plain.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Nov 8 2016, 5:33pm)


Ingwion
Lorien


Nov 8 2016, 5:29pm

Post #16 of 20 (2138 views)
Shortcut
Oh of course! [In reply to] Can't Post

I had completely forgotten about those incidents - and yes I think the messenger to Erebor was a Nazgul as well.
I thought that maybe the Nine could intimidate the other party to agreeing to their terms.


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


StingingFly
Lorien


Nov 8 2016, 7:21pm

Post #17 of 20 (2125 views)
Shortcut
Overkill... [In reply to] Can't Post

The character is supposed to be repulsive, but this was just another example of PJ going over the top. The helmet, which accentuates his mouth is a good idea, even the rotted, jagged teeth. The book describes his horse as looking like an undead creature, so the same could apply to the rider, an ancient man who has been kept alive by the powers of evil far too long.
The visual was just too much, though. A distraction from the scene itself, which is supposed to be a battle of wills between good and evil. What it turns into is another 'action' scene where a good guy decapitates a monster.


leisulin
Registered User

Nov 8 2016, 7:37pm

Post #18 of 20 (2116 views)
Shortcut
I still think it was great [In reply to] Can't Post

I hear what you're saying about "overkill" but I still think how they did it was great, and was surprised they left it out of the theater version.


Gianna
Rohan


Nov 10 2016, 3:21pm

Post #19 of 20 (1962 views)
Shortcut
True, but [In reply to] Can't Post

it accentuated the name "Mouth of Sauron". It was a nice touch.

I agree that Aragorn beheading him was a horrible violation of all the laws of chivalry and Tolkien's writings, but it doesn't change that the character design for the Mouth of Sauron was pretty good. It just shows that some of the scriptwriting decisions were bad ones.

"The men of the East may search the scrolls,
For sure fates and fame,
But the men that drink the blood of God
Go singing to their shame."

-G.K. Chesterton, The Ballad of the White Horse, Book I

------
My fantasy novels


jc1138
Registered User

Jul 6, 2:09pm

Post #20 of 20 (290 views)
Shortcut
I had [In reply to] Can't Post

No problem with the design and I liked it overall, just really didn't like how Aragorn beheads him. Book and movie Aragorn doesn't seem like he would ever so casually violate the laws of parley like that, which would be a major breach for a war leader to do. Perhaps some may say he was trying to provoke the forces of Mordor, or simply dispatching a monster, but that doesn't give him license to flout the rules of war. If anything, Aragorn would be more likely to adhere to those laws despite the evil-ness of the enemy.

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.