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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Better Bilbo: Holm vs. Freeman
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StingingFly
Lorien


Oct 30 2016, 4:47pm

Post #1 of 31 (2104 views)
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The Better Bilbo: Holm vs. Freeman Can't Post

Though they are playing different roles, (old vs. young), who do you feel better captures the spirit of Bilbo Baggins?

Initially I was put off by Freeman's (at times) excessive twitching and nervousness, though I appreciated his expressiveness and thoughtfulness. Over time I have come to admire his interpretation more and more.

That being said, Holm is just too good in that role. It helps that he acted the part first, being the first character we spent time with in FOTR. The scenes with he and McKellen were so good, I just cannot imagine Gandalf and Bilbo any other way.

What say you?


(This post was edited by StingingFly on Oct 30 2016, 4:49pm)


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 30 2016, 4:52pm

Post #2 of 31 (2012 views)
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I have to say Freeman [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I think they both did absolutely amazing jobs - inexpressibly brilliant - I actually prefer Freeman. I love his twitching and his mannerisms, and find them hilarious. He brilliantly captures the spirit of BB - his acting at the sons of Durin's funeral was fabulous - encapsulated his innocence perfectly.

In short, I love both, but I enjoy Freeman more, maybe because he makes me laugh...


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Oct 30 2016, 4:58pm

Post #3 of 31 (2012 views)
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Both [In reply to] Can't Post

Martin Freeman is perfect as younger Bilbo and Ian Holm is perfect as older Bilbo. I can't pick one over the other, they are both the perfect Bilbo Baggins


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 30 2016, 10:44pm

Post #4 of 31 (1971 views)
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Both of them, I'd say.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Because the parts are so different I was puzzled by the choice of Martin Freeman beforehand but I think he brought out so many aspects of the younger Bilbo. The fussiness, the good manners, the tension between staying at home and the adventure, the resourcefulness he didn't know he had and the depth of emotion. But Ian Holm is so good as the older Bilbo - with Gandalf, as you say, and also with Frodo.

I don't think any one actor could have covered both roles - the age range is too great and make-up never really that convincing, so I'd say it worked out really well.

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 30 2016, 10:59pm

Post #5 of 31 (1968 views)
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Definitely not [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I don't think any one actor could have covered both roles - the age range is too great and make-up never really that convincing, so I'd say it worked out really well.


Definitely not, if the FOTR Prologue shot of BB finding the ring is anything to go by


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


OldestDaughter
Rohan


Oct 30 2016, 11:29pm

Post #6 of 31 (1955 views)
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Both. [In reply to] Can't Post

Freeman brought a great, fussy, and bravery to Bilbo, where Holm brought Bilbo an fiery old touch to the hobbit, so I loved both.




"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."


malickfan
Gondor

Oct 31 2016, 9:01am

Post #7 of 31 (1926 views)
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Ian Holm [In reply to] Can't Post

I just think he's a better actor and he captured the fusty, kindly but wistful LOTR era Bilbo perfectly, his Bilbo feels more Hobbity to me.

I'd seen Freeman in so many other shows and films beforehand I found it a little hard to accept him in the role, I was so used to him playing twitchy fusty posh Englishman that his Bilbo at times felt less like a new character, more himself in a wig...








Glorfindela
Valinor


Oct 31 2016, 9:51am

Post #8 of 31 (1919 views)
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Bilbo comparisons [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I just think he's a better actor and he captured the fusty, kindly but wistful LOTR era Bilbo perfectly, his Bilbo feels more Hobbity to me.

I'd seen Freeman in so many other shows and films beforehand I found it a little hard to accept him in the role, I was so used to him playing twitchy fusty posh Englishman that his Bilbo at times felt less like a new character, more himself in a wig...


I've never seen Martin Freeman as particularly playing 'twitchy fusty posh [especially] Englishman'. However, he does tend to always act the same – the character in the Office, for example, is not unlike the Bilbo character. I don't think he has much range to his acting.

Having said this, I think Freeman was a good choice for Bilbo in the Hobbit – though Sir Ian Holm is the better actor by far, and he was perfect in the role of Bilbo in FotR (I didn't like the make-up job they did on him for RotK).


malickfan
Gondor

Oct 31 2016, 10:22am

Post #9 of 31 (1915 views)
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Freeman was probably the best choice for the younger Bilbo out of those rumored for the role... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and he did have a lot of good moments, I just sometimes feel he was cast because of his public perception rather than his acting talents (though I'd argue he was increasingly sidelined as the trilogy progressed anyway) 90% of the time in the roles I've seen him he's playing an awkward bumbling Englishman, and The Hobbit wasn't too different.

I was very impressed by Freeman in the first series of Fargo though, his American accent was really good (to an Englishman's ears at least) and the conniving sniverly Lester was very different to the usual roles he plays, so maybe Bilbo just didn't offer a great deal of range...

I agree about the ROTK makeup, not very good...

But what do I know, I had actually pictured Colm Meaney as Bilbo when reading the book...








Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 31 2016, 11:05am

Post #10 of 31 (1911 views)
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Ian Holm [In reply to] Can't Post

I have to say I really disliked him in BOFA


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Oct 31 2016, 12:02pm

Post #11 of 31 (1899 views)
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Why? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I have to say I really disliked him in BOFA

Why did you disliked him? He was only there for about 10 seconds.


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 31 2016, 1:18pm

Post #12 of 31 (1888 views)
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He just didn't feel like [In reply to] Can't Post

The Bilbo in FOTR.... I think he tried too hard to blend Freeman's Bilbo and his own Bilbo together, and it didn't feel right, for me.


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Smaug the iron
Gondor


Oct 31 2016, 1:26pm

Post #13 of 31 (1883 views)
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How about AUJ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you like Ian Holm in AUJ?


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 31 2016, 1:28pm

Post #14 of 31 (1881 views)
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Funny enough, I thought he was ok [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I prefer FOTR Holm by a mile.


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 31 2016, 1:54pm

Post #15 of 31 (1875 views)
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Holm... [In reply to] Can't Post

..he was perfect as both the Old and the Young Bilbo.

Martin Freeman is... well, if you watch more of his projects, you see through his technique. Thus I have to agree that he basically is very similar in his different roles.

And that's why they should never, never, EVER replace Holm by Freeman in the FOTR prologue.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet - Custom Booklet Project



Kilidoescartwheels
Valinor


Oct 31 2016, 2:21pm

Post #16 of 31 (1871 views)
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Not a fair comparison [In reply to] Can't Post

Ian Holm's Bilbo was such a small part in FoTR, whereas Martin's Bilbo was the main character in 3 movies. I thought Martin was the PERFECT actor for this role, can't see anyone else playing Bilbo in "The Hobbit" - and Ian was too old anyway. He couldn't travel to NZ. But I think Ian did great in FoTR, and I would be sad if his "younger Bilbo" was replaced with Freeman. Those of us who've watched the movies from the beginning have no problem with this.

I'd say I've entered my second childhood, but I never left the first!


dormouse
Half-elven


Oct 31 2016, 4:07pm

Post #17 of 31 (1853 views)
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Well, here's the thing.... [In reply to] Can't Post

When people talked about Martin Freeman as Bilbo before he was cast I thought, "Why him?". When I saw him acting, I knew why.

You seem dismissive of Freeman as an actor (forgive me if I'm misunderstanding, but that's what your post suggests to me). But ask yourself, if that's really the case, why is an actor of the standing of Sir Ian McKellen so impressed by Martin Freeman's technique? He clearly is impressed from his comments on the EEs, and he's not a man to say what he doesn't mean. The similarity you observe in the parts MF plays may simply reflect the parts he's offered. It may be that having done one type of character really well, directors think of him when they want to cast a similar part, and that may say nothing about what he could do, given a chance...

Just a thought. I do agree with you about the FotR prologue, not because I think Martin Freeman couldn't do it but because Ian Holm did do it. The film is as it is and as it was made to be and I think that's how it should stay (I don't think they should go back and replace Gollum, either).

For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 31 2016, 5:08pm

Post #18 of 31 (1833 views)
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Well I havn't really seen any more of MF [In reply to] Can't Post

But surely because his performance in similar to his other movies, it doesn't take away from it? I don't see why an actor's lack of variety (supposed or factual or false) would have any weight in a discussion of who was the better Bilbo? Crazy


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Noria
Gondor

Nov 1 2016, 11:53am

Post #19 of 31 (1754 views)
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There is no Holm vs Freeman for me. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think both are great interpretations of a "man" at different stages of his life. None of us are exactly the same person in old age as we are in youth.

I loved Ian Holm as old Bilbo in LotR and TH but his obvious age and poor health always precluded him from playing young Bilbo in TH.

As soon as Martin Freeman's name was being bandied about as a possible Bilbo I thought "Yes!" He didn't disappoint and I like the slightly harder edge his Bilbo had from the beginning in comparison to book Bilbo (who is fine as he is in the book).

An actor's previous roles are never a problem for me - I see that person as the character he/she is playing at that moment. IMO it is the fault of neither the producers nor the actor if a viewer has been overexposed to a performer or can't separate them from a previous role, and there is nothing they can do about it anyway. I agree with dormouse that actors tend to be cast in similar roles but I think that Freeman's performance as John Watson is quite distinct from his Bilbo.

I too don't want to see Ian Holm replaced by Martin Freeman in FotR nor Gollum by his later avatar. I don't care about continuity. Directors have a saying about that. IIRC, Peter Jackson expressed some ambivalence about replacing Bilbo on one of the commentaries but thankfully doesn't seem inclined to actually do anything about it.


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Nov 1 2016, 1:51pm

Post #20 of 31 (1731 views)
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Martin Freeman is a character actor, so... that's kind of what he does [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure everyone's familiar with the term, but just for edification, a character actor is most often someone who specializes in playing a very specific type of person (or personality range) and hones that same basic character over the course of their career, hopefully delving a bit deeper with each dip into that character's well. Probably the most famous and highly respected character actor still living today is Robert De Niro and it is because of his chosen style of performing that he is almost always cast for roles in mafia or police procedural films - the character he has been honing for almost half a century is basically an Italian-American man who (usually) wields some serious authority over those around him and those within his family/friend/professional circle, though he always carries an air of pent-up aggression and the presumed, often realized, capability to become quite violent at the drop of a hat. The repetition of this type of character should never be confused with a lack of talent or creative bankruptcy... unless the actor simply isn't very good at it, of course. Also none of this is to be confused with method acting, which I think is what some people would prefer from every actor; in effect, this style is total immersion into a completely different character with just about every chosen film.

From my point of view, if you're a director and you have to cast someone in the role of a character who's prissy, finicky and always seems somewhat anxious and aloof, you really really really want to call Martin Freeman's agent.


(This post was edited by TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense on Nov 1 2016, 1:51pm)


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Nov 1 2016, 1:58pm

Post #21 of 31 (1727 views)
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Almost forgot to answer the stinking question [In reply to] Can't Post

I share in the view that both Ian Holm and Martin Freeman killed the role of Bilbo, and Holm's older Bilbo feels like a natural progression from Freeman's with the benefit of age, experience and wisdom.


ange1e4e5
Gondor

Nov 1 2016, 4:58pm

Post #22 of 31 (1692 views)
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They both played Bilbo equally well. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


LSF
Gondor

Nov 1 2016, 5:36pm

Post #23 of 31 (1695 views)
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They were both great [In reply to] Can't Post

Holm as the older, experienced, eccentric, at times sad and weary version. Freeman as the younger, nervous, heroic version. I think Holm's is a natural progression of what Freeman's would be 60 years later. Like Freeman said in the AUJ Appendices, while he studied what Holm had done, his job was not to copy it, because a man is different when he's significantly older as opposed to younger. I have no problem seeing them as the same character.


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Nov 1 2016, 7:00pm

Post #24 of 31 (1670 views)
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I had totally forgotten that Freeman had said that [In reply to] Can't Post

I appreciate him making a concentrated effort to avoid copying Holm's portrayal, not just because of age, but also because it would've been a great disservice to both actors had Freeman merely presented an impasse (regarding creativity) impersonation.


TheHutt
Gondor


Nov 2 2016, 6:42am

Post #25 of 31 (1590 views)
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DeNiro [In reply to] Can't Post

I think you are incorrect about DeNiro being a character actor rather than a method actor. Actually, DeNiro is the very example of method acting, which can easily be verified if you see his early work (Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, The Godfather II, Novecento...). It is not until after Goodfellas that he got typecast for a certain kind of character.

I would rather discriminate between "chameleon" actors and the ones who are cast because they convey certain properties associated with them. (Examples for chameleon actors would be someone like Geoffrey Rush). As for MF, he certainly isn't. Which is absolutely not a bad thing - if you like his quirks.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Booklet - Custom Booklet Project


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