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Ingwion
Lorien
Oct 23 2016, 10:16pm
Post #1 of 18
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Are the bears which Beorn meets skin-changers?
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In Queer Lodgings in The Hobbit, Gandalf tells the company how he discovered tracks of many bears near Beorn's house. Are these bears skin-changers like Beorn? Or are they the rest of the Beornings, and related to Beorn? This raises another question - For the race to be called the "Beornings" wouldn't they have to be descended from Beorn? So was Beorn married? Do skin-changers get married? Are they predominantly bearish or manish in nature? If Beorn did have a spouse, would it be another skin-changer, a bear or a man? If a bear or a man, would the Beornings have the same skin-changing capabilities as Beorn?
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens. It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 23 2016, 11:14pm
Post #2 of 18
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The people called Beornings who arose late in the Third Age were Men of the vales of Anduin who made Beorn their chieftain following the Battle of Five Armies. They were not skin-changers as a rule. Beorn presumably took a wife from among them. His direct heirs were often skin-changers, also able to take the forms of bears.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Oct 24 2016, 1:04pm
Post #3 of 18
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In Queer Lodgings in The Hobbit, Gandalf tells the company how he discovered tracks of many bears near Beorn's house. This seems to indicate that Beorn was not the only skin changer at the time. Logic tells us the tracks were not just PLAIN bears?
This raises another question - For the race to be called the "Beornings" wouldn't they have to be descended from Beorn? So was Beorn married? Do skin-changers get married? See Grimbeorn below.
Are they predominantly bearish or manish in nature? If Beorn did have a spouse, would it be another skin-changer, a bear or a man? If a bear or a man, would the Beornings have the same skin-changing capabilities as Beorn? Mainly Mannish, I would think. See Letter 144 below. And yes, in order to have a son (Grimbeorn) Beorn would have a spouse.
The only Beorning encountered in LotR is Beorn, who as a skin-changer was probably not representative of his people. -Foster’s Complete Guide To Middle-earth . . . Beorn was the chieftain of the clan of Northern Men whose traditional duty it was to maintain the trade routes . . . -Tyler’s Complete Tolkien Companion Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men . . . They are valiant men and keep open the High Pass and the Ford of Carrock. -III, Many Meetings Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man. -Letters, #144 ‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . . But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?' Gandalf to Denethor
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 24 2016, 2:27pm
Post #4 of 18
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In Queer Lodgings in The Hobbit, Gandalf tells the company how he discovered tracks of many bears near Beorn's house. This seems to indicate that Beorn was not the only skin changer at the time. Logic tells us the tracks were not just PLAIN bears? We cannot make such an assumption considering Beorn's abilities to transform and to speak with animals. There is nothing that tells us that the other prints were made by anything other than normal bears.
This raises another question - For the race to be called the "Beornings" wouldn't they have to be descended from Beorn? So was Beorn married? Do skin-changers get married? See Grimbeorn below.
The only Beorning encountered in LotR is Beorn, who as a skin-changer was probably not representative of his people. -Foster’s Complete Guide To Middle-earth . . . Beorn was the chieftain of the clan of Northern Men whose traditional duty it was to maintain the trade routes . . . -Tyler’s Complete Tolkien Companion Frodo learned that Grimbeorn the Old, son of Beorn, was now the lord of many sturdy men . . . They are valiant men and keep open the High Pass and the Ford of Carrock. -III, Many Meetings Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man. -Letters, #144 Tolkien tells us within The Hobbit how Beorn goes from living a solitary life to becoming a chieftain of Men (relevant passages bolded for emphasis):
Anyway by mid-winter Gandalf and Bilbo had come all the way back, along both edges of the Forest, to the doors of Beorn's house, and there for a while they both stayed. Yule-tide was warm and merry there; and men came from far and wide to feast at Beorn's bidding. The goblins of the Misty Mountains were now few and terrified, and hidden in the deepest holes they could find; and the Wargs had vanished from the woods, so that men went abroad without fear. Beorn indeed became a great chief afterwards in those regions and ruled a wide land between the mountains and the wood; and it is said that for many generations the men of his line had the power of taking bear's shape, and some were grim men and bad, but most were in heart like Beorn, if less in size and strength. In their day the last goblins were hunted from the Misty Mountains and a new peace came over the edge of the Wild. So of the Beornings, only the men (and women?) descended from Beorn, such as his son Grimbeorn, might be skin-changers.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 24 2016, 2:28pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 24 2016, 4:23pm
Post #5 of 18
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I've always thought they were ordinary bears, because Beorn seemed to prefer the company of animals. Maybe I'm just not logical enough!
For still there are so many things that I have never seen: in every wood and every spring there is a different green. . .
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Oct 24 2016, 11:36pm
Post #6 of 18
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I can be illogical if I want to..
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It's bearly still a free-speech country -- for now.. I'll bare the burden of being right -- or wrong... I'll stick w/ a sleuth of skin-changers for now -- that's right "sleuth"
‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . . But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?' Gandalf to Denethor
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 24 2016, 11:48pm
Post #7 of 18
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Don't bare that burden in front of me (unless the burden is a beautiful woman)! But you can bear it all you want.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Oct 25 2016, 1:10am
Post #8 of 18
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I’ll bare the burden of being bearly wrong. They were bear, real bear mind you, footprints (or do bears have pawprints? And these bears WERE bare! I find no textual evidence that THESE bears had feet ) outside Beorn’s house, (and why do WE go bare-foot but not bear-foot? Cause we go human-foot.). Gandalf calls them bear-tracks, just to throw us a conundrum as he is wont to often do. And so good ole Beorn was born the first of the skin-changers. Who were his parents? Beornillda and Tarzan. And what do Bill the Pony, Bill Huggins, and Bill Ferney have in common? And I’ve done gone and lost my sense of logic again. Excuse – one! I’m on a pain-killer (it do kill) for my knee---- and I’m a’sackin’ out early. Bye fer now… You won’t have BG to kick around until tomorrow.. Ha! Hey dormouse – tea tomorrow? I promise to behave if Otaku does too. . . .
‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . . But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?' Gandalf to Denethor
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 25 2016, 2:38am
Post #9 of 18
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And so good ole Beorn was born the first of the skin-changers. Who were his parents? Beornillda and Tarzan. From what Gandalf says, I would guess that there were skin-changers before Beorn.
"He is a skin-changer. He changes his skin: sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard... Some say that he is a bear descended from the great and ancient bears of the mountains that lived there before the giants came. Others say that he is a man descended from the first men who lived before Smaug or the other dragons came into this part of the world, and before the goblins came into the hills out of the North. I cannot say, though I fancy the last is the true tale... "At any rate he is under no enchantment but his own." Maybe Radagast the Brown had something to do with Beorn gaining his ability. Perhaps he isolated himself out of fear that he was too dangerous to be around other people. However, Beorn's actions at the Battle of Five Armies seem to mark a turning-point. Maybe he gained restraint and self-control in his bear-form.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 25 2016, 8:10am
Post #10 of 18
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I fort they had fur coats on! Tea for three a pleasure, Mr B! Tea, scones with cream and jam, (that may be jelly to you... ). See you at tea time (psst, when you live in a teapot it's ALWAYS teatime). And I'm sorry about the knee.
For still there are so many things that I have never seen: in every wood and every spring there is a different green. . .
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 25 2016, 11:35am
Post #11 of 18
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I've seen it speculated that at least one of Beorn's descendants (possibly a woman/girl) might even gain a transformation into something other than a bear: A deer, a huge swan, perhaps even a wolf (though not a Warg). But we don't know that other skin-changers, previous to Beorn, exclusively took the forms of bears or if they might have had the shapes of other animals. For that matter, we are only guessing by implication that there had been other skin-changers not descended from Beorn.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 25 2016, 1:44pm
Post #13 of 18
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Gandalf referred to Beorn as 'a' skin-changer, not 'the' skin-changer, so there presumably were (or had been) others. Beorn might have even inherited his ability from a forebear (no pun intended, honest!), though we aren't specifically told this. Tolkien intentionally leaves it a mystery, though he does reveal in a later letter that Beorn was a still a mortal man who passed on by the time of the War of the Ring. And Radagast was described as a master of shapes and hues, so he might have passed on some knowledge to others, perhaps helping them find and use an inherent gift?
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Oct 25 2016, 1:50pm
Post #14 of 18
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Thanks for the tea… Jam/Jelly - same same over here. Knee is good (getting there at least) thank you.
‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . . But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?' Gandalf to Denethor
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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 25 2016, 2:11pm
Post #15 of 18
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Didn't Elwing take the form of a swan....
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...does that make her a skin-changer?
For still there are so many things that I have never seen: in every wood and every spring there is a different green. . .
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Oct 25 2016, 2:52pm
Post #16 of 18
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It was Ulmo who gave Elwing the likeness of a swan when she cast herself into the sea to prevent the Silmaril from falling into the hands of the sons of Feanor, so that she could find Earendil on Vingilot. Later when she and Earendil dwelt in Valinor she learned the craft of flight from the birds that became her friends, so that she could greet him when he returned from his journeys, but not as a swan, she simply had wings that were of white and silver-grey.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.' The Hall of Fire
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 25 2016, 4:13pm
Post #17 of 18
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Elwing's transformation into a bird (swan? gull? or albatross?) was a one-time thing engineered by Ulmo, so I don't think we can count her a skin-changer, though she did seem to gain the ability to speak with birds. It is said that she eventually learned how to assume wings and fly as she once did, but it's unclear whether she again became a bird.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Oct 25 2016, 7:49pm
Post #18 of 18
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And Earendil… talking of changing skin…
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…became The Flammifer of Westernesse. … Love it! Bilbo did his very best with this poem. . . (with a very small bit of ‘help’ from Aragorn). Does that make Earendil a . . . . . . Oh, nevermind
‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . . But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care. For I also am a steward. Did you not know?' Gandalf to Denethor
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