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Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell
Oct 24 2016, 4:48pm
Post #1 of 26
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Future of Middle Earth franchise
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I would like to bring up a topic that has probably been beaten to death over the years regarding additional television/movie material for Middle Earth. This is coming from an eager millennial (26 yrs old) who only discovered this amazing world through the brilliant Sir Peter Jackson and his adaptation of LOTR in 2001.
I know there are many who are extremely loyal to the material and want a proper adaptation. I certainly agree with that. I think LOTR is one of the greatest cinematic achievements of all time. The Hobbit is a good trilogy, but fell short of expectation. It had the potential to be something huge, even surpass LOTR. The story changes along with CGI heavy effects and the 2 film switch to 3, along with HFR controversy certainly hurt reception.
My point is that two of the biggest franchises of the last several decades are continuing on. Star Wars had IV-VI, then I-III, now VII along with side films and spin offs. Star Wars is huge in pop culture. Harry Potter was a large franchise with 8 films and numerous other excitements, based on the amazing books. Now there are 5 additional films coming out (Fantastic Beasts). The wizarding world is going to continue to dominate for the next several years.
With all of this happening, I feel a large hole inside where something Middle-Earth-like can fill. I obviously understand the issue with who has rights over the material. But it is just a shame that this grand story told over dozens of books can't be touched and made into movies, trilogies, TV shows, etc. I am a fan that wouldn't be here without film. There are others that would gravitate towards Tolkien's beautiful work with a successful adaptation.
Simply put, I want Middle Earth to be relevant again. Besides the Shadow of Mordor game, a few random revised book releases, the franchise is at a standstill, if not dead (apart from the obvious continual success of the books)
What are the chances that in the next 5 years, something comes up? A revitalized movie, trilogy, or story of some degree would get people interested again. Am I the only one who is dying to see this? Game of Thrones has done an excellent job of keeping the fantasy genre relevant. Now is the time for something new to take over.
"Only, you've never done a hard day's work." - Merry
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 24 2016, 5:24pm
Post #2 of 26
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First, role-playing games are doing their part in keeping Tolkien's Middle-earth alive with Cubicle 7 and Sophisticated Games publishing both The One Ring Roleplaying Game and Adventures in Middle-earth (the latter of which uses the base-rules for D&D 5e).
There could still theoretically be new movies spun-off of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings as long as they don't infringe on The Silmarillion or other works. My favorite option would be a movie telling the story of young Aragorn, based on Tolkien's "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen" from the LotR Appendices.
And there certainly might be more Middle-earth video games.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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squire
Half-elven
Oct 24 2016, 6:25pm
Post #3 of 26
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You're certainly not the only one who feels that way. But...
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I have to say, at the risk of old-fogey-dom, my attitude is: if Tolkien didn't write it, it shouldn't be made into (movie, TV, web, comic, play, etc.). The reason I like the LotR films is because they are a fairly faithful adaptation, all things considered; the same for Bakshi's work and the Rankin-Bass productions.
Star Wars was written as a film series from the start, and commercial success was always its reason for being. Harry Potter has fairly well stuck to the books, and the new series is st least based on a book by the same author. But Tolkien wrote his books entirely from the heart, with no expectation of great success, much less becoming a posthumous multimedia 'franchise' to feed an endless succession of fans with a huge commercial gravy train. And that makes his work rare, and special, to me. It's what I like about Tolkien fandom: we favor depth, rather than width.
Now, I doubt that any of his other books will be released for adaptation any time soon; but if they ever are, I live in hope that they will be treated respectfully in light of their own styles and merits. None of them have very much to do with LotR and The Hobbit, and I shudder at the idea that they, or some fan-fiction expansion of the LotR appendices, would be altered and rewritten with production concepts (cast, settings, music, themes, etc.) designed to further 'the franchise'.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
 = Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Oct 24 2016, 6:43pm
Post #4 of 26
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The Story of Beren and Luthien or The Tale of Earendil the Mariner
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Warner Brothers owns the film rights for The Hobbit and LOTR, including the names of characters contained within as well as the names of places, objects and events within them.
The story of Beren and Luthien is told in the LOTR chapter Knives in the Dark.
The tale of Earendil the Mariner is told in the LOTR chapter Many Meetings.
(Note details exclusive to Tolkien's other works couldn't be used but that wouldn't stop WB from making up and adding their own stuff.)
Frankly, though, I'm looking for a reboot. Warner Brothers has already rebooted Spider-Man and Superman each for the third time, so why not The Hobbit and/or LOTR for a second?
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Oct 24 2016, 6:44pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 24 2016, 7:38pm
Post #5 of 26
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I'm looking at the word 'relevant' in your post, and wondering...
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Like Squire, I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who has known and loved the books for a very long time. And what I would suggest to you is that the life of Middle Earth is its own life; as creative, as richly varied and as captivating as it has always been. It is a unique creation. Its themes will always be relevant to those with the mindset to enjoy them. It will never appeal to everyone, but then, it never did. And sooner or later someone will make new films of the books - just as they will continue to paint, draw, model, write music inspired by Middle Earth. But the relevance and the life comes from the stories themselves.
I love the films (all of them). I'll carry on watching for as long as I can remember how to hold a remote control. I know they did draw people like yourself to Middle Earth and I'm glad of that - but don't ever think that if we don't see new films for a while the thing will die. People will still be drawn to Tolkien's work as they've always been.
(I'd like to see a film of 'Smith of Wootton Major, but I don't suppose I ever will!)
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell
Oct 24 2016, 7:50pm
Post #6 of 26
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I guess there's probably a different way to describe it besides using the word "relevant"
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I'm the kind of person that likes many different versions of something. I've read the books over and over and I love them, but to an extent, it only gets me so far. I like to see maps, drawings, pictures, etc. I've also purchased those kinds of books.
But what LOTR and The Hobbit did is it gave me additional visuals, glorious music, additional drawings, the landscapes of New Zealand which closely resemble Middle Earth. I can go on reading the books, but it's great to see these stories in new light with added music, background, and even understanding the story a little better.
The ability to actually see a live version of The Shire, see hobbits walking around, see mountains with eagles flying over, the towering stone walls of Minas Tirith, etc. That brings a whole new level of beauty to my mind. It would be great to see more of Middle Earth, more characters, more background visually.
"Only, you've never done a hard day's work." - Merry
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor
Oct 24 2016, 9:05pm
Post #7 of 26
(1535 views)
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A film version of SoWM could be amazing
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Unfortunately, the expectations that have been created of what a "Tolkien film" is like would make it very challenging to market such a film. But I think it could be done.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
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Ginger
Rohan
Oct 24 2016, 10:27pm
Post #8 of 26
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Have you seen the movie Breaking Away?
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Dennis Christopher’s character tells his father (Paul Dooley) that he needs to give a refund for a purchased car that would not run. Paul Dooley just starts incredulously yelling REFUND?! I read your post and all I heard in my head was Paul Dooley saying REBOOT?! REBOOT?!
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Oct 25 2016, 3:23am
Post #9 of 26
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I'm coming at this from the perspective of someone who has known and loved the books for a very long time. And what I would suggest to you is that the life of Middle Earth is its own life; as creative, as richly varied and as captivating as it has always been. It is a unique creation. Its themes will always be relevant to those with the mindset to enjoy them. It will never appeal to everyone, but then, it never did. And sooner or later someone will make new films of the books - just as they will continue to paint, draw, model, write music inspired by Middle Earth. But the relevance and the life comes from the stories themselves.
I'm not going to pretend to be someone who lived most of my life with Tolkien only as a book series. I discovered The Hobbit, in high school, only a year and a half to two years before Fellowship of the Ring first premiered in cinemas. But even that small period of time gave me an appreciation for what these stories were, and what they meant, in a world where there weren't movies coming out every couple of years.
In the months proceeding FotR's release, I was sitting down in the newsroom studio at work, running teleprompter, when one of my co-workers' relatives (who was there to watch the taping of the newscast) took a moment and pointed to the one volume edition of LotR that I had brought with me that evening. He softly said: "That's a very special book."
LotR had not yet exploded upon the masses as it would come Christmas. At that time, a moment like this was a special experience. I always look back fondly on it, remembering that these stories have been around for so long. They mean a great deal to so many people across so many different generations.
I don't see that changing just because there aren't new Middle-earth movies out there to constantly compete against the barrage of sequels, prequels, remakes and so on that populate cinema every year. Tolkien's stories will always be "relevant".
Which is not to say that I don't ever want to see another cinematic take on these stories. But I also don't want the "franchise" driven into the ground.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Oct 25 2016, 3:26am)
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Oct 25 2016, 7:28am
Post #10 of 26
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...the 6-season, 48-episode quality TV adaptation of LotR, mostly faithful to the book. A few minor adjustments would be ok, such as being clearer about the Arwen/Aragorn romance (don't just spring it on us in Season 6), but no real violations of canon.
Little touches, like a brief dream-like dramatization of the Beren/Luthien tale by Weathertop would be fun, too.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 25 2016, 11:20am
Post #11 of 26
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True, I neglected to include future remakes/reboots of either The Hobbit or The Lord of the Rings! Instead I was focused more on Peter Jackson's Middle-earth film-universe.
We have also yet to see a comics adaptation of LotR. Or, dare I say it? The Lord of the Rings - The Manga.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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NottaSackville
Valinor
Oct 25 2016, 12:16pm
Post #12 of 26
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Can we do a kickstarter for that? //
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Happiness: money matters, but less than we think and not in the way that we think. Family is important and so are friends, while envy is toxic -- and so is excessive thinking. Beaches are optional. Trust is not. Neither is gratitude. - The Geography of Bliss by Eric Weiner as summarized by Lily Fairbairn. And a bit of the Hobbit reading thrown in never hurts. - NottaSackville
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Oct 25 2016, 4:10pm
Post #13 of 26
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Like to see something with Tom Bombadil.
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That could be really neat. I would love to see a real life adaption of that, but would be fine if they decided to make an animated version of the story.
Also, not about Middle-earth, but the creator. Would love to see a motion picture about the life of J.R.R. Tolkien, like they had done with the movie "Miss Potter."
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 25 2016, 4:17pm
Post #14 of 26
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Also, not about Middle-earth, but the creator. Would love to see a motion picture about the life of J.R.R. Tolkien, like they had done with the movie "Miss Potter."
The last I knew, there were at least two such projects in development.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Oct 25 2016, 4:23pm
Post #15 of 26
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At least we have something Tolkien that might come in the future!
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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DeadRabbits
Rohan
Oct 25 2016, 10:54pm
Post #16 of 26
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I feel the same way, and I really would like to see an expanded Middle-earth universe...
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... but not necessarily with PJ at the helm, but perhaps it would make sense to let him produce any future ME movies to maintain some sort of connection to the old trilogies.
I think there's so many stories that deserve to be told and made into films. To mention some of them:
* The forging of the rings of power and the war of Sauron and the elves
* The rise of the Witch-king/Fall of Arthedain and the Battle of Fornost
* Aragorn & Arwen/The Adventures of Thorongil
* The War in the North
With the right script writers, concept artists and directors, I'm sure it could be done. If they can cram five(!) movies out of Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, then why can't the Appendices be used as source material to continue the franchise?
Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought
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Meneldor
Valinor
Oct 26 2016, 1:03am
Post #17 of 26
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Farmer Giles could, with the right team,
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be a wonderful animated film, IMO. I'd love to see it filmed in the same style as the artwork in the book.
They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Oct 26 2016, 12:09pm
Post #18 of 26
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That would be a good one! Would also like to see the Father Christmas Letters in animation as well!
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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Ingwion
Lorien
Oct 26 2016, 5:37pm
Post #19 of 26
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I'm sure we don't want PJ to milk the appendices for all they're worth, making fanfiction left, right and center....
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Oct 26 2016, 5:40pm
Post #20 of 26
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If this new b&l book will eventually be made into a movie. The rights to this book could be sold without selling off the rest of The Silmarillion. Same for The Children of Hurin, though I think an epic love story is more likely to appeal to the masses.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 26 2016, 5:54pm
Post #21 of 26
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If this new b&l book will eventually be made into a movie. The rights to this book could be sold without selling off the rest of The Silmarillion. Same for The Children of Hurin, though I think an epic love story is more likely to appeal to the masses.
Eventually could be a very long time even it the rights are sold before the book becomes public domain. The Silmarillion might fall into public domain before that happens.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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DeadRabbits
Rohan
Oct 26 2016, 8:22pm
Post #22 of 26
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I would be totally fine with it...
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... although I would prefer seeing another director's vision of Middle-earth, with PJ producing. And I got nothing against "fan fiction", as long as it's good quality stuff.
In fact, a sheer amount of "fan fic" would be needed to flesh these stories out, but if the scripts are good, then I'm all for it.
I'm aware that the overall feeling on these boards is "If Tolkien didn't write it, then stay the hell away" and that "PJ ruined The Hobbit", but I don't feel that way at all.
Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought
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Ingwion
Lorien
Oct 26 2016, 8:25pm
Post #23 of 26
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I'm aware that the overall feeling on these boards is "If Tolkien didn't write it, then stay the hell away" and that "PJ ruined The Hobbit", but I don't feel that way at all.
Me neither. I love The Hobbit. What I really meant is that we probably wouldn't like a movie to be made from a single-line foundation in the appendices - at least I wouldn't. i'm fine with Angmar etc. They have substantial material in the canon.
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Oct 26 2016, 9:11pm
Post #24 of 26
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I am ok with fanfiction as well.
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Both the fan films Hunt For Gollum and Born of Hope had a bit of fanfiction to them, along with actual canon. And I enjoyed them both!
It would be nice to see another fan film likes those from some of the text of the LOTR's.
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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Ardamírë
Valinor
Oct 27 2016, 12:38pm
Post #25 of 26
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But I think it infinitely more likely that the Tolkien Estate would be more willing to sell the rights to Beren and Lúthien before selling the rights to the Silmarillion. I'm not saying it will actually happen, but then who really knows what will happen when Christopher is gone.
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