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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 24 2016, 7:21pm
Post #26 of 45
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For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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LSF
Gondor
Oct 24 2016, 7:42pm
Post #27 of 45
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I think, in general, you can get away with that kind of stuff easier in books. But in visual mediums, it's much harder. In a book, you can kind of forget that the character is in the middle of a raging inferno or a heated battle for a moment. But in a movie, you can't ignore that because you are seeing it. There's now an undeniable sense of urgency, so how/why would a character make a speech there. Not the time to be making fancy speeches.
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StingingFly
Lorien
Oct 24 2016, 7:47pm
Post #28 of 45
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This is Tolkien we're talking about
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...ridiculously long extemporaneous speeches are what people do. Bard's 3 or 4 lines is pretty stoic and tight-lipped by Middle Earth standards.
Honestly, after they decide to have Bard build an impromptu 'anti-dragon' cannon out of some parts of a broken longbow and his son...there wasn't much credibility left to lose.
Btw, I am glad you mentioned the elf-fires. Those added greatly to the mystery and enchantment of Mirkwood. It also could have been a brief look into the life and culture of the elves.
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dormouse
Half-elven
Oct 24 2016, 10:15pm
Post #29 of 45
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The elf fires always stood out for me...
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...from the first time I read the book. Such a magical, beautiful image - I can understand that the film version of Mirkwood didn't lend itself to that, but I would still have loved to see it.
For still there are so many things
that I have never seen:
in every wood and every spring
there is a different green. . .
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ange1e4e5
Gondor
Oct 25 2016, 2:04am
Post #30 of 45
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So, did no one read my remarks on why the arrow was made larger?
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I always follow my job through.
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 25 2016, 2:52am
Post #31 of 45
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So, did no one read my remarks on why the arrow was made larger?
I didn't need to; I already knew that the 'arrow' was made larger because the size of Smaug had also been increased greatly for the films. As you posted, it just wouldn't have looked credible.
Maybe no one remarked on it because it's been discussed many times already.
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 25 2016, 2:56am)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 25 2016, 4:40am
Post #32 of 45
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when he receives that so precious Black Arrow back from his son Bain, up there on the tower, then he could have had a few words of welcome and invocation for that so badly needed Black Arrow that is going hopefully to save all their lives - and does indeed.
This is not just any trivial arrow that Bard holds now again in his hand:
I for one would have appreciated such a brief pause, directly inspired by the book if only reduced to those few but intense words from the Bowman heir of Girion, honoring that Ancient Weapon inherited from him, forged by the Dwarves themselves, that he has kept hidden for all those years, secret even from his son until the Dragon Danger again materialized through the coming back of Thorin and his companions as per the prophecies. When finally that seemingly lost Arrow is given back to him at the very time of its most urgent need, then is the right moment for honoring it and invoking its Power, it seems to me.
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 25 2016, 4:44am
Post #33 of 45
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 25 2016, 5:05am
Post #34 of 45
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And still the film-version *did*
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lend itself to that, as the Feast of Starlight was said to be happening, and that necessarily means outdoors: even as the Dwarves were brought in as prisoners by Tauriel and Legolas, something could have been seen from afar, lighting up a whole area through the branches of the trees in between...
That could have been beautiful, and mysteriously intriguing until we would later learn about the Feast... and it could have been shown in that way without even needing any extra time: just that lit-up background in the distance, for example as they all walk on that narrow stone bridge towards the Gates for the prisoners to be seen by Thranduil.
Oh, I begin to really regret this missed opportunity for such a great brief scene straight from the book! It could have been lovely...  Magical, as you say, dormouse...
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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LSF
Gondor
Oct 25 2016, 5:08am
Post #35 of 45
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The great thing about having actors in a visual medium is that he does not have to verbally say all or any of that. I don't feel the need to have him say it, because think he does so enough through his facial expressions.
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 25 2016, 5:32am
Post #36 of 45
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his own home or somewhere in the Town Hall, behind some high book-shelves that could pivot if you knew where to push?... This very practical-minded Master said to leave all the books (perhaps the whole Lake-town Archives!!!) and only take the gold, of course...
I seem to remember something like that from the film, and for me that was close enough to the way the Master steals also the gold in the book-version of it, and perishes with it... which I know very well too, but felt was in its essence (wisely in my eyes) brought in earlier into the film-version.
As for the end of Alfrid, I could like your idea with Gollum... except that I would very much like to see in some future film (?) my beloved Aragorn himself capturing him and handing him over to the Mirkwood Elves, so I would not welcome in the present films a drastic fast-forward of that whole subsequent period, as you propose!... 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Oct 25 2016, 5:33am)
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 25 2016, 5:47am
Post #37 of 45
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still, sometimes those few rare words that are said, make the point even stronger, and so, not missed by the part of the audience that may very well have missed the honoring and invoking by Bard of the Black Arrow's Power, when, as is the case now, it is expressed only through his great acting.
Even just a second of pause, with something like "O Magic Black Arrow of my forefathers, now is your time...", murmured intensely under his breath, would be enough for me...
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 25 2016, 11:14am
Post #38 of 45
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Differences between book and film
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I just re-watched the opening sequence in TH:BotFA. The concealed door in the Town Hall led to the Master's escape route, not the treasury (although he did of course, fill his boat with loot from the treasury). The main difference is that in the book, the theft took place sometime after the Battle of Five Armies; the gold that the Master stole was from Smaug's hoard and was intended for the rebuilding of Esgaroth; and the Master died of sickness and exposure, alone in the wilderness after having been abandoned by his men.
I only proposed Gollum beginning to follow Bilbo a mere four years earlier than he did in Tolkien's legendarium. Jackson's changes were far greater, resulting in Aragorn being born approximately seventeen years earlier. Nothing that I suggested prevents Strider from hunting down Gollum. Although I think that in the films, Sméagol might never have been handed over to Thranduil. Legolas arrives in Rivendell in response to a summons and nothing is said at the Council of Elrond about Gollum's capture and escape. We just know for certain that at some time Gandalf was able to find and question the wretch (possibly with Aragorn's assistance).
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 25 2016, 11:15am)
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Oct 26 2016, 7:51am
Post #39 of 45
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We just know for certain that at some time Gandalf was able to find and question the wretch (possibly with Aragorn's assistance).
Do you mean in the films or books? Because as I recall nothing in the movies seem to suggest Gandalf ever captured Gollum. Remember his words in FOTR: ''I looked everywhere for the creature-Gollum, but the enemy found him first'', or something like that.....
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 26 2016, 10:11am
Post #40 of 45
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if Aragorn too can still come, in due time...! 
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
(This post was edited by mae govannen on Oct 26 2016, 10:12am)
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 26 2016, 12:29pm
Post #41 of 45
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Do you mean in the films or books? Because as I recall nothing in the movies seem to suggest Gandalf ever captured Gollum. Remember his words in FOTR: ''I looked everywhere for the creature-Gollum, but the enemy found him first'', or something like that.....
Sorry, but what part of "I think that in the films," is hard to understand?
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 26 2016, 12:36pm
Post #42 of 45
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Well, In Tolkien's legendarium the adult Aragorn first met Gandalf the Grey in the year of his twenty-fifth birthday (TA 2956). His age in the films matches the timeframe of the Quest of Erebor, but it might be easier to suppose that the young Ranger first encounters Gandalf either the following year or the one already past. 2940 was already a busy time for movie-Gandalf (yes, Jackson messed up the year of the quest when he got the year of Bilbo's birthday party wrong all the way back in the extended edition of LotR:FotR).
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Oct 27 2016, 5:21am
Post #43 of 45
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even if it is very unlikely that such an Aragorn - Legolas film will ever be made... including then of course this wonderful shot of Arwen smiling so happily to Aragorn, the breeze playing in her hair, that dates from LOTR but has never been used yet... *sigh*
Thanks anyway for this very precise info you provided me with!
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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LittleHobbit
Lorien
Nov 2 2016, 4:25am
Post #44 of 45
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Do you mean in the films or books? Because as I recall nothing in the movies seem to suggest Gandalf ever captured Gollum. Remember his words in FOTR: ''I looked everywhere for the creature-Gollum, but the enemy found him first'', or something like that..... Sorry, but what part of "I think that in the films," is hard to understand?
None of it is hard to understand. However, if you REALLY mean the movies, then how does your scenario work, since Gandalf never captured Gollum in them, according to the lines I have transcribed above?
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Nov 2 2016, 11:03am
Post #45 of 45
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...if you REALLY mean the movies, then how does your scenario work, since Gandalf never captured Gollum in them, according to the lines I have transcribed above?
First, you did not transcribe any lines, you recalled them from memory. And your memory left out an important detail: Gandalf did locate and question Gollum in the films, but it was not until after he had been captured and interrogated in Mordor (just as in the book). How else do you suppose Gandalf learned Sméagol's backstory, not to mention his name?
"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes
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