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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Lord of the Rings:
Warg Fight in Two Towers

helenedwards
Registered User

Oct 21 2016, 4:46am

Post #1 of 15 (1898 views)
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Warg Fight in Two Towers Can't Post

This has not aged well. Just watched it recently and it looks terrible. I remember PJ saying in the commentary that the CGI was never given much time, and it shows! The fight itself looks poorly thought-out. Gimli, one of the big fighters, gets trapped after 5 seconds. Aragorn falls off a cliff. I hate this scene.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Oct 22 2016, 7:00pm)


Gianna
Rohan


Oct 21 2016, 12:32pm

Post #2 of 15 (1835 views)
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The fight may not be well scripted [In reply to] Can't Post

But I personally don't have a problem with the CGI. Throughout the trilogy it always (or almost always) looked gritty and real to me. I do sort of dislike this scene too, though, mainly because it involves yet another "He's dead! No he's not!" moment and poor decisions like that disappoint me in a masterpiece like the LOTR films.

"The men of the East may search the scrolls,
For sure fates and fame,
But the men that drink the blood of God
Go singing to their shame."

-G.K. Chesterton, The Ballad of the White Horse, Book I

------
My fantasy novels


OldestDaughter
Rohan


Oct 21 2016, 12:37pm

Post #3 of 15 (1832 views)
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I actually enjoy this scene, [In reply to] Can't Post

I am ok with the CGI as well. There are two things that really stand out for me that I find cool is one: I love the way Legolas eases himself onto his horse's back and two: I love how Théoden is leading the men into battle. Later in the movie, he is a little more hesitant, but when it comes to fighting on horseback, he is there!


But that is just me!Wink




"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 22 2016, 10:26am

Post #4 of 15 (1765 views)
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I also like this scene [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the hurried rallying. The sheer brutality of the horses and wargs crashing into each other at the start is shocking, and we don't get it anywhere else. I think it brings a real sense of danger. Having said that, the Aragorn's dead thing was not good


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


OldestDaughter
Rohan


Oct 22 2016, 2:06pm

Post #5 of 15 (1755 views)
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Also love how after the two sides collide, [In reply to] Can't Post

you don't hear any music playing in the background, which shows the utter seriousness of the scene.




"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 22 2016, 6:35pm

Post #6 of 15 (1730 views)
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Oh yes! [In reply to] Can't Post

I forgot about the no-music part - I love that too. Maybe if the concept of the scene full stop was a bit faulty, but it was executed marvellously.


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


OldestDaughter
Rohan


Oct 22 2016, 9:05pm

Post #7 of 15 (1712 views)
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It was executed marvellously!! [In reply to] Can't Post

 




"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."


Imladris18
Lorien


Oct 24 2016, 2:59pm

Post #8 of 15 (1647 views)
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One of my favorite Legolas scenes. [In reply to] Can't Post

The slow-mo shots of him sniping wargs from atop a hill across the field and subsequently slinging up on the horse with the accompanying music is fantastic. Just the right amount of elven ability while still being believable.



Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 24 2016, 5:33pm

Post #9 of 15 (1629 views)
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Believable? Not too sure about that :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Imladris18
Lorien


Oct 24 2016, 7:58pm

Post #10 of 15 (1622 views)
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Ugh, I had a feeling someone would have something to say about that. [In reply to] Can't Post

Believable for an elf in Middle-earth, not in real life. It's a lot more grounded than flying a giant bat at least.



TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Oct 24 2016, 8:19pm

Post #11 of 15 (1617 views)
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Cross-mounting a horse as it's charging over a hill at full speed [In reply to] Can't Post

Is not 'a lot more grounded' than hanging from a giant bat, other than the fact that the former circus act is actually happening on the ground. Assuming the bat would have the mass to sustain Legolas (which, judging from his ability to walk lightly on top of the snow, is highly likely), this feat is more plausible than the horse mounting scene.


Imladris18
Lorien


Oct 24 2016, 8:24pm

Post #12 of 15 (1616 views)
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Agree to disagree. [In reply to] Can't Post

If his mass is low enough to not fall into snow, run up free-falling rocks, and ride a bat "plausibly," not sure how it's too much of a stretch to mount a running horse.



(This post was edited by Imladris18 on Oct 24 2016, 8:28pm)


StingingFly
Lorien


Oct 25 2016, 12:27am

Post #13 of 15 (1594 views)
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agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

This is my favorite Legolas scene. First, there is the look of shock as he sees the oncoming Wargs. This isn't the "I can destroy an army by myself" Legolas, he is legitimately concerned, here. Next, the decision to take out as many as he can, instead of retreat. Finally, the mount, as he rushes into battle with the cavalry (instead of staying a safe distance away from the battle).

Overall, the battle had a sense of urgency (protect the women and children!) and gravity (aside from Gimli getting trapped under the Wargs). The 'cliffhanger' with Aragorn was a poor decision, but this skirmish was a good set up for Helm's Deep, which is my favorite Middle Earth battle.


TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense
Rohan


Oct 25 2016, 6:07pm

Post #14 of 15 (1556 views)
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I never said it was a stretch - I was saying the opposite [In reply to] Can't Post

If Legolas, at a total standstill, can cross-mount a horse as the horse is charging at full speed over a hill, it is not too much of a stretch (no stretch at all, actually) that he can stay above the snow whilst others sink beneath it, run up free-falling rocks (as the sequence is displayed in slow motion, we know he was booking it up those rocks) and ride a bat large enough to carry his extremely light weight.

My point being, that none of these moments are unbelievable within the context of the character Legolas as established by Jackson's films - because the most outlandish of all his feats were shown to us way back in TTT.


(This post was edited by TheOnlyOneAroundWithAnySense on Oct 25 2016, 6:09pm)


moreorless
Gondor

Nov 4 2016, 6:20am

Post #15 of 15 (1412 views)
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I think the cliffhanger leads to better setup than the battle... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This is my favorite Legolas scene. First, there is the look of shock as he sees the oncoming Wargs. This isn't the "I can destroy an army by myself" Legolas, he is legitimately concerned, here. Next, the decision to take out as many as he can, instead of retreat. Finally, the mount, as he rushes into battle with the cavalry (instead of staying a safe distance away from the battle).

Overall, the battle had a sense of urgency (protect the women and children!) and gravity (aside from Gimli getting trapped under the Wargs). The 'cliffhanger' with Aragorn was a poor decision, but this skirmish was a good set up for Helm's Deep, which is my favorite Middle Earth battle.


When it comes to setting up coming events I would rather say the opposite. That is that I think the cliff-hanger aspect of the warg attack is the main setup for the coming story whilst the attack itself is more an excuse to inject a bit of action into a film that had lacked it for the previous hour.

Really we do not see the cliffhanger itself used a great deal to setup cheap drama IMHO. For one thing Aragorns status and the literal nature of the event mean that even non readers are likely to question his "death" right away and for another its obviously revealed quite quickly he isn't dead.

Besides wanting a bit of action(I think a legitimate artistic choice as this wasn't some ultra fast paced Disney blockbuster for the ADHD generation) the main reason this section existed was to allow for Aragorns return IMHO as those scenes allow for a lot of setup.

Obviously it allows for Aragorns connection to Arwen, Gimli, Legolas and Eoywen to be played up plus also allows him to see Saurman's army and give us a more epic "solo horseman" intro to Helms Deep but more than anything I think it sets up his development. During TTT I think we clearly see Aragorn moving towards taking up a position of a leader of men and the idea of "rebirth" from a near death experience is a classic way to show that, slowly emerging from the dreamlike state(which again has links to Arwens vision involving his kingship) before having his importance highlighted by his return. I think you could argue these scene are one of the most important bits of development for Aragorn across the entire story.


(This post was edited by moreorless on Nov 4 2016, 6:24am)

 
 

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