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Ninja
Registered User
Oct 13 2016, 8:17am
Post #1 of 17
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Best speeches of the LOTR trilogy
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What do you think, what are the best speeches of these books?
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Gianna
Rohan
Oct 14 2016, 12:04am
Post #2 of 17
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Ones that especially stand out to me are Gandalf's words about deciding what to do with the time that is given us, Sam's wondering if he and Frodo will be put into songs and stories (and realising that they're in the same tale still as Beren and Luthien - I love that!), and Faramir's renunciation of the Ring.
"The men of the East may search the scrolls,
For sure fates and fame,
But the men that drink the blood of God
Go singing to their shame."
-G.K. Chesterton, The Ballad of the White Horse, Book I
------
My fantasy novels
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a.s.
Valinor
Oct 14 2016, 1:21am
Post #3 of 17
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There are many lovely speeches in the book. Probably what a reader thinks is "best' depends on many things: age of the reader, how many times the book has been read, the application of any specific speech to the heart of the reader at the time of reading, or even a speech which becomes fondly remembered over time and on reflection.
I have a personal favorite piece of dialogue, and not sure it qualifies as "speech" in the sense of oratory. It's just the small sentence of a small hobbit that I think sums up the whole tale. It's highly personal and would never be considered one of the quotable words of the book.
It's just Frodo, deep in Mordor, talking to Sam:
"I can manage it," said Frodo. "I must."
I'm sure others have more eloquent quotes. But I like this best.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"A safe fairyland is untrue to all worlds." JRR Tolkien, Letters.
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squire
Half-elven
Oct 14 2016, 1:43am
Post #4 of 17
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Some fabulous, though "politically incorrect", ones
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“The Elder Days are gone. The Middle Days are passing. The Younger Days are beginning. The time of the Elves is over, but our time is at hand: the world of Men, which we must rule. But we must have power, power to order all things as we will, for that good which only the Wise can see.
“... A new Power is rising. Against it the old allies and policies will not avail us at all. There is no hope left in Elves or dying Númenor. This then is one choice before you. before us. We may join with that Power. It would be wise, Gandalf. There is hope that way. Its victory is at hand; and there will be rich reward for those that aided it. As the Power grows, its proved friends will also grow; and the Wise, such as you and I, may with patience come at last to direct its courses, to control it. We can bide our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all the things that we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any real change in our designs, only in our means.”
How fabulous is that?
Then there's this gem:
“As a small token only of your friendship Sauron asks this: that you should find this thief, and get from him, willing or no, a little ring, the least of rings, that once he stole. It is but a trifle that Sauron fancies, and an earnest of your good will. Find it, and three rings that the Dwarf sires possessed of old shall be returned to you, and the realm of Moria shall be yours for ever. Find only news of the thief, whether he still lives and where, and you shall have great reward and lasting friendship from the Lord. Refuse, and things will not seem so well. Do you refuse?”
It chills the blood, as all great speeches do.
And, of course:
“Dwarf-coat, elf-cloak, blade of the downfallen West, and spy from the little rat-land of the Shire-nay; do not start! We know it well - here are the marks of a conspiracy. Now, maybe he that bore these things was a creature that you would not grieve to lose, and maybe otherwise: one dear to you, perhaps? If so, take swift counsel with what little wit is left to you. For Sauron does not love spies, and what his fate shall be depends now on your choice. ...
“Good, good! He was dear to you, I see. Or else his errand was one that you did not wish to fail? It has. And now he shall endure the slow torment of years, as long and slow as our arts in the Great Tower can contrive, and never be released, unless maybe when he is changed and broken, so that he may come to you, and you shall see what you have done. This shall surely be -- unless you accept my Lord’s terms:
“The rabble of Gondor and its deluded allies shall withdraw at once beyond the Anduin, first taking oaths never again to assail Sauron the Great in arms, open or secret. All lands east of Anduin shall be Sauron’s for ever, solely. West of the Anduin as far as the Misty Mountains and the Gap of Rohan shall be tributary to Mordor, and men there shall bear no weapons, but shall have leave to govern their own affairs. But they shall help to rebuild Isengard which they have wantonly destroyed, and that shall be Sauron’s, and there his lieutenant shall dwell: not Saruman, but one more worthy of trust.”
When Elrond or Gandalf speaks, we say, 'how well he spoke!'. But when Mordor is heard, we say, 'let us march!'
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Ninja
Registered User
Oct 14 2016, 6:46pm
Post #5 of 17
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I love these speeches, and those above your post.
If you have more, then do not hold inside.
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Ninja
Registered User
Oct 14 2016, 7:04pm
Post #6 of 17
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It feels great to read these awesome quotes. But what about the long speeches? Speeches with structure and deeper content. Dramatic or heroic..what do you think about these?
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a.s.
Valinor
Oct 14 2016, 8:41pm
Post #8 of 17
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Hi, I haven't seen you around, although I myself have been sort of hit or miss on the boards of late. But I can see these are your first posts. Welcome. I hope you stay awhile.
Most of us have read LOTR multiple times, so are always interested in new ways of thinking about the words we love so well.
Why don't you begin by quoting the ones you like best. And tell us what you mean by, "Speeches with structure and deeper content. Dramatic or heroic."
Which, when you consider it, sounds a lot like a Lit class assignment.
a.s.
"an seileachan"
"A safe fairyland is untrue to all worlds." JRR Tolkien, Letters.
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enanito
Rohan
Oct 14 2016, 8:53pm
Post #9 of 17
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Not songs? What about council discussion, then?
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Welcome Ninja! Agreed that it's always nice to hear new voices chiming in.
So you're not looking for oratory via songs, where the person either recites memorized dialogue or creates it on-the-fly? What about discussion during a council, such as Elrond's Council or The Last Debate? Could a lengthy explanation of Elrond of the history of the Ring, or of Gandalf describing his encounter with the Balrog or with Saruman count?
If this is just something you happen to be interested in, that's perfectly fine, we all post things like that from time-to-time. But if there's something behind your question, that's always good to know as well, just to help us answer it better!
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Bracegirdle
Valinor
Oct 16 2016, 1:15am
Post #10 of 17
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But what about the long speeches? Speeches with structure and deeper content. Dramatic or heroic..what do you think about these?
Welcome Ninja!
Long speeches? Squire has given a couple examples.
Dramatic or heroic leads me to ask what constitutes a “speech”? A speech can be a short vocal expression of thoughts (even a single sentence given from a lectern could be considered a speech), or a more lengthy oratory to an audience.
A speech could be whispered, or a speech could be bellowed.
Or could a speech be somewhat poetical such as Theoden’s cry near the Rammas Echor?:
Arise, asrise, Riders of Theoden!
Fell deeds awake: fire and slaughter!
spear shall be shaken, shield be splintered,
a sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
Ride now, ride now! Ride to Gondor!
Always one of my favorites (of which there are many). But would THIS be considered a “speech” or simply a bit of (“loud”) oratorical persuasion to raise the passion of his people?
‘. . . the rule of no realm is mine . . .
But all worthy things that are in peril . . . those are my care.
For I also am a steward. Did you not know?'
Gandalf to Denethor
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Oct 16 2016, 2:39pm
Post #11 of 17
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I like Galadriel's speech when Frodo offers her the Ring
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Galadriel laughed with a sudden clear laugh. ‘Wise the Lady Galadriel may be,’ she said, ‘yet here she has met her match in courtesy. Gently are you revenged for my testing of your heart at our first meeting. You begin to see with a keen eye. I do not deny that my heart has greatly desired to ask what you offer. For many long years I had pondered what I might do, should the Great Ring come into my hands, and behold! it was brought within my grasp. The evil that was devised long ago works on in many ways, whether Sauron himself stands or falls. Would not that have been a noble deed to set to the credit of his Ring, if I had taken it by force or fear from my guest?
‘And now at last it comes. You will give me the Ring freely! In place of the Dark Lord you will set up a Queen. And I shall not be dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Morning and the Night! Fair as the Sea and the Sun and the Snow upon the Mountain! Dreadful as the Storm and the Lightning! Stronger than the foundations of the earth. All shall love me and despair!’
She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark. She stood before Frodo seeming now tall beyond measurement, and beautiful beyond enduring, terrible and worshipful. Then she let her hand fall, and the light faded, and suddenly she laughed again, and lo! she was shrunken: a slender elf-woman, clad in simple white, whose gentle voice was soft and sad.
‘I pass the test,’ she said. ‘I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel.’
Tolkien, J.R.R.. The Lord of the Rings: One Volume (p. 366). Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. Kindle Edition.
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noWizardme
Half-elven
Oct 22 2016, 8:06am
Post #12 of 17
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The art of persuasion in Middle-earth
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I think we're looking for oratorical performances, of the kind that a politician might have given as a stump speech, or as a radio broadcast. Before it became attack ads, sound bites, tweets and low grade ad hominem attacks.
Something like Cicero or Winston Churchill, perhaps?
Maybe you don't persuade people like that in Middle-earth, unless what you are trying to persuade them to do isn't good?
I can't think of many scenes of a character making a Chuchillian speech, though the sentiments of resistance at all costs to desperate tyranny are there. Characters speak to one another indivually (so more like dialogue than a formal speech). Or they have a meeting. Or they use song (or, given that Tolkien likes to pretend he's a translator not an author) we're to assume whatever they really said is now popularly imagined in verse - Just as Henry V almost certainly did not address his troops with a fine Shakespearean speech.
I think Saruman's oratorical effort for Gandalf is a really interesting example: it's chilling precisely because it is a speech rather than some persuasive remarks.
~~~~~~
Volunteers are still needed to lead chapters for our read-thorough of Book VI ROTK (and the appendices if there are sufficient volunteers) http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=909709#909709
A wonderful list of links to Book I - Book V chapters in this read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Oct 22 2016, 8:15am
Post #13 of 17
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Saruman's speech is a good example.
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The most extended speeches we have are in The Council of Elrond. All are lengthy addresses to an assembled group, some to give an accounting of events, but as time goes on, more to advocate particular plans of action.
(This post was edited by Elizabeth on Oct 22 2016, 8:16am)
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CuriousG
Half-elven
Oct 22 2016, 9:54pm
Post #14 of 17
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This speech isn't persuasive, but revealing of the Elves
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I'm partial to Elrond's mention of the Elder Days in his speech at his Council:
Thereupon Elrond paused a while and sighed. ‘I remember well the splendour of their banners,’ he said. ‘It recalled to me the glory of the Elder Days and the hosts of Beleriand, so many great princes and captains were assembled. And yet not so many, nor so fair, as when Thangorodrim was broken, and the Elves deemed that evil was ended for ever, and it was not so.’ I returned to it often in browsing LOTR when I was trying to understand Elves better, and why they were so melancholy. It seemed to me that the clearly superior race in the story should feel happy that it's superior, but they're gloomier than anyone. But having that long memory of when things really were better and more glorious gives you a good reason in the days of decline to be less than peppy. It's a pervasive feel throughout Middle-earth and not limited to just the Elves, that things were better in the past and will never be that great again, even if Sauron is defeated. And when you get to the end of the book and feel like nothing has worked out for Frodo--the hero should live happily ever after, right?--this Elvish outlook on things explains why.
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Oct 22 2016, 10:12pm
Post #15 of 17
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Can Elessar make ME great again?
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Nostalgia is a state of mind. People do tend to think the world was a better place "back then", especially if their personal youth was happy. I feel that way, myself, but when I look at it more coldly, I realize that my own childhood was concurrent with WWII, and the world was a pretty awful place indeed.
I wonder if Elrond's nostalgia isn't much the same. Those splendid banners, hosts, princes, and captains, were confronting a great evil and many were about to fall in the process, full in the knowledge that it had been done before and would probably need to be done again.
I wonder if Aman is so perpetually wonderful that Elrond and the others who return will be happy long-term, or will they feel nostalgic for their Middle Earth enclaves full of art and song, protected by Great Rings?
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EomundDaughter
Lorien
Oct 22 2016, 10:27pm
Post #16 of 17
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Reminded me of reading some of Tolkiens letters
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in which he mourned the past beauty and advances of the Germans and their culture that he admired......but was lost in their wars...
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newrow
The Shire
May 29 2018, 9:39pm
Post #17 of 17
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Gandalf's Last Debate monologue by far is the best written other than Earendil's plea to the Valar or Luthien's song to Mandos.
Gandalf's oratory masterpiece is wrought of wisdom, decorated with courage, crowned with humility, jeweled by suffering, and clothed in the timeless question to each generation asking what are you going to do in your time honoring those that came before. No other verse written by man I care not except that monologue. It echoes to me even today. There lies the forgotten, authentic interpretation of the Golden Rule. It has to do with Boromir's belt of gold. That I feel is the greatest gift to his readers is that monologue and the subtle pointing to the Golden Rule as it was meant to be known.
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