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wizzardly
Rohan
Oct 9 2016, 5:14pm
Post #26 of 53
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there is certainly no doubt that both trilogies turned out "quite different".
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Avandel
Half-elven
Oct 9 2016, 5:16pm
Post #27 of 53
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have my issues w. LOTR and did long before the Hobbit films were being story-boarded.
As far as *OP defilements* go IMO PJ should have forgotten LOTR was ever made during filming w. the stellar talent he had on hand for the Hobbit - a trap, I think, when doing connected films that other directors also fall into - not working in the present. That some small nods to a previous film are enough. 
And I don't watch LOTR and the Hobbit back-to-back. For one thing, I prefer the Hobbit films; for another, a lot of the time I don't even watch ROTK or only part of it. I prefer the book LOTR - although LOTR is magnificent, in many, many ways. But watching LOTR - I miss some nuances of the book *cough* Faramir/Denethor *cough*. Similarly, I suppose, to the Hobbit, I remain unenthused by the large presence of a female elf in LOTR, and so on. No matter how fetching they look. And some resultant IMO silliness connected w. both (Arwen's mysterious "dying"; Tauriel and Kili/BOFA).
Just sayin'. OP and others are entitled to opinion - I feel pretty much the same about TC playing Jack Reacher and refuse to watch films, period. But IMO in many ways Hobbit films elevated book characters - tho, needless to say again I guess, that IMO PJ did a remarkable job with the Hobbit considering his source material.
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lionoferebor
Rohan
Oct 9 2016, 6:33pm
Post #28 of 53
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For me the LOTR trilogy is a piece of cinematic art. It's the reason I first read these books. The Hobbit trilogy - which I have mixed feelings about - neither ruined nor improved LOTR or Middle Earth for me.
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sevilodorf
Tol Eressea
Oct 10 2016, 1:00am
Post #29 of 53
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Long before Hobbit came out I had calmed myself down and learned to recite... It's a movie... It's a movie and there's going to be changes.... Disagree with him and just enjoy the ride.
Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com
Home of TheOneRing.net Best FanFic stories of 2005 and 2006 "The Last Grey Ship" and "Ashes, East Wind, Hope That Rises" by Erin Rua
(Found in Mathoms, LOTR Tales Untold)
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OldestDaughter
Rohan
Oct 10 2016, 10:43pm
Post #30 of 53
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I actually really enjoyed the Hobbit films and love watching them as a whole series with LOTR's. But that is just me. Everyone has their own opinions.
"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."
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glor
Rohan
Oct 11 2016, 1:09am
Post #31 of 53
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A reasonable idea, executed badly
[In reply to]
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That's my take on the whole Kili and Tauriel relationship. It was that Tauriel dialogue after Kili's death in BOTFA, it was unnecessary, a scene of quiet reflection whilst she held his mother's gift would have worked, rather than what we got. That and the healing scene in DOS....
Look at that beautiful scene, between Gandalf and Bilbo in BOTFA, the pipe exchange after Thorin's death, silent yet so much was said.
Having said that I do regard Evangeline's performance in TH as excellent, she elevated Tauriel above the material she was given, always the sign of a good actor.
With regards to the whole TH vs LOTR discussion and without meaning to sound like some total PJ apologist, the fact is, that New Line gave PJ and his team, ample time for development, script rewrites etc. Yet with TH, PJ was told by WB deliver on the dates period, after having had the whole project foisted on him after the Del Toro departure. If the same thing had happened under New Line, as happened under WB I think the films would have been different, PJ would have been given the time needed to work his way (i.e trying stuff, scrapping it, making it up as he goes along, rewrites, more call backs etc... well it worked before).
WB wanted a blockbuster to fill their coffers, they weren't interested in Oscars or Tolkien.
No mascara can survive BOTFA
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Jeffrodo
Bree
Oct 11 2016, 1:40am
Post #32 of 53
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Really? The Hobbit movies made me love Middle Earth more than ever!
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Arannir
Valinor
Oct 11 2016, 1:03pm
Post #33 of 53
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I still regard the LotR movies as cinematic jewels... however, I sometimes do think about my disappointment with TH when I watch them. Especially when I see scenes and think "yeah, that is the style I love so much and did not find in TH anymore" - for example.
Of course, there are also the scenes where I now sometimes think "well, the seed of what I dislike in TH is already present here" but that does not bother me too much or too often (for example the skull scene in the EE of RotK).
All in all, I accept that TH did not turn out the way I would have liked it to turn out. I do not loathe it... but there are only aspects of the three movies I can really enjoy while LotR captures me in its entirety.
I certainly do have troubles seeing them as a six-movie-saga, though. Watching them back to back did not enrich the experience for me in the end... it actually made what I believe to be TH's shortcomings stand out for me much more... especially since I think that the order AUJ -> RotK does not work all that well. Despite the many times PJ has said he thought about the many people who will see them in that order, TH feels very dependent on LotR-knowledge at times and aware of its role as a "prequel".
And yet, there are scenes in TH that I can rewatch over and over again (Galadriel's reveal in AUJ, Smaug burning Lake-town, Gandalf and Bilbo after the battle, Galadriel and Gandalf scene in Rivendell...), though I have no real desire to watch the entire movies again any time soon, while I still watch the LotR movies 1-2 times a year.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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HOBBITFAN13
Lorien
Oct 11 2016, 4:17pm
Post #34 of 53
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The LOTR is the best movie trilogy of all time! And I was super excited when the Hobbit films were announced. I thought AUJ was a good solid film and I've grown to love DOS over the years. But overall the trilogy was disappointing and I think it did kind of ruin it for me because I felt that the filmmakers were caring less about the source material and instead wanted to make blockbuster action films. We do not need to return to Middle Earth. As much as we all love it, nothing can beat the LOTR trilogy and really there is no more story to tell PERIOD and a reboot/remake would be OK in 20-30 years from now.
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LSF
Gondor
Oct 11 2016, 5:20pm
Post #35 of 53
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Quite the opposite, actually.
I liked LOTR well enough when I saw it in theaters and when the EEs came out. It was good. But I had no desire to watch it again after that. (I seem to have that behavior with most movies, even though I like them). I didn't have that desire to watch and buy my own copies until months after DOS. Why? Because I was enjoying the Hobbit so much. LOTR is still good, but I enjoy Hobbit much more, and have the rewatch track record to prove it 
My Middle Earth is these films. The Hobbit only made it more enriching of an experience. Without them, I probably never would've given LOTR another thought.
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Omnigeek
Lorien
Oct 13 2016, 3:29am
Post #36 of 53
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... I do regard Evangeline's performance in TH as excellent, she elevated Tauriel above the material she was given, always the sign of a good actor.
...
Much as I detest the whole Kili/Tauriel substory, Evangeline did a fabulous job with the character and direction she was given.
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DainPig
Gondor
Oct 13 2016, 2:56pm
Post #37 of 53
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I agree with you that after DOS the things started going downhill... only to be restored in BOTFA. I do like the third film and I think it is just underrated.
The Hobbit, IMO, is better than Lotr. It is unique, it is colorful, it have all the kind of characters and places. The soundtrack is better and it is different from anything in cinema.
So, no. He didn't ruin anything. There are flaws but no.
"Se mais pessoas valorizassem o lar acima do ouro, o mundo seria muito mais feliz."
dainpigblog.blogspot.com
historiasderafaelrodriguesdarocha.blogspot.com
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brotherbeck
Rivendell
Oct 15 2016, 2:38am
Post #38 of 53
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Unfortunately, yes they have. The further we get from the release of this latest Hobbit trilogy, the more I'm realizing I have absolutely no desire to watch these films any more. Such a tremendous missed opportunity. So much talent squandered.
I will never for the life of me understand why, when faced with the situation of not having the script / story / plan for the films fully prepared but thousands of people were ready to go and hundreds of millions of dollars were on the line, PJ chose to just wing it and make a bunch of stuff up rather than fall back on an incredible story that has entertained and been beloved by millions of people all over the world for the better part of a hundred years.
It is painfully obvious to me when watching the films that Peter Jackson really didn't know where he was going with their overall story the whole time they were making them.
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DainPig
Gondor
Oct 15 2016, 3:09am
Post #39 of 53
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I think they should not have done the hobbit as a sequel to the Lotr films, but just as a good and enterntaining adaption with little or zero connection to the other trilogy. This isn't Star Wars. Did we need those fan services?
And I don't think it was a complete waste. Partially yes, but not a complete waste. The main problem was the lack of focus to Bilbo and the dwarves. PJ just missed the opportunity to make the most awesome dwarf story ever, but not, he denied it. He thought it was better to see Legolas acting like a retarded.
We still got lots of great stuff and I am very happy with it. But could it have been batter? YES.
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Silmaril
Rohan
Oct 18 2016, 1:55pm
Post #40 of 53
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The Hobbit did not ruin LOTR for me!
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I still enjoy LOTR like before. But I understand your feelings. I hoped that The Hobbit would have the same impact on me like LOTR had. But this was not the case, I liked the beginning of AUJ, but when Radagast entered the movie I felt that there's something wrong for me, I even disliked the trolls which I like in the books..hmmm. But DOS was much worse with the barrel escape (Barrel Bombur, Legolas...puh), golden dwarf (What possessed you, great Mr. Alan Lee?), the forges and Smaug chase...I left the cinema really sad. I enjoyed BOTFA a little more, but it could not save the trilogy for me. I tried it a couple of times by watching it at home. Martin Freeman was amazing, but the scripts and the effects were not. Why did it not continue that great like it did began? Too much invented scenes (a lot feels like fan fiction), too much action, bad changes/decisions (open barrels, 3d, cgi, 3 movies). This weekend I gave up and sold everything Hobbit movie related and watched LOTR the movies and appendices. And it felt great!!!
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1924
Bree
Oct 24 2016, 2:12am
Post #41 of 53
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nope. Not only do I enjoy The Hobbit films but they make some parts in LOTR better for me (like the Balin's Tomb scene and Frodo getting Sting and the Mithril vest from Bilbo). The Hobbit films have made me like this entire world even more
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Oct 29 2016, 11:33pm
Post #42 of 53
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Thinking about it for some time after the release of the last Hobbit film, I don't think it has ruined the experience of the LotR films for me, which was unique and extraordinary. For me, the blips in those films were relatively minor, and overcome by the sheer magnificence and originality of the trilogy as a whole. It was unlike anything that had ever been produced on film before, with the beautiful scenery, the models, the costumes and all the hand-crafted objects that were used in the films.
The Hobbit, for me, is a different matter. Initially, when seeing AUJ, I thought it caught something of the spirit of the LotR trilogy. Sadly, this did not continue. For me, the Hobbit was seriously marred by certain elements, which either did not exist in LotR, or were much less evident. In the Hobbit, there was:
* The self-indulgent grossness that was injected into the films, with things like the eating of testicles, the awful character and portrayal of the slime ball whose name I've forgotten, some idiociy with 'Dwarves' supposedly capering naked around some fountain, a repetition of their food-throwing antics in Rivendell (as if there wasn't enough of this in Bilbo's home), Radagast's make-up and 'blood spatters' on the screen a la comic-book imagery of some troll being squashed by a cart. All of this was utterly stupid and completely unfunny. It is stuff that PJ wouldn't have dared use in LotR, but obviously he has more confidence now and feels he can indulge himself. And how absurd to mount a heavy dwarf on a tiny hog…
* The terrible, wooden portrayal of Legolas, who shouldn't even have been in the films, especially at the expense of characters such as Beorn.
* The crass, embarrassing 'love story' and inclusion of a made-up character that ditto shouldn't have been in the films.
* The abrupt ending at the funeral was truly very bad, as was Thranduil's unexplained disappearance from the story (but of course we HAD to see Legolas, AGAIN).
* The music in LotR wrapped itself around every scene – it was utterly beautiful. But in the Hobbit none of it is memorable for me, merely serving as a quiet background that is neither here nor there.
• Because of the above the spirit of Tolkien was missing from the Hobbit, unlike in LotR. While the three LotR films were being made, PJ even repeatedly said that he was intending to honour Tolkien's work (or words to that effect). He never once said that when it came to the Hobbit.
To me, it seemed as though all perspective was lost in the story-telling, with the wrong emphasis being given to certain things. Dol Guldur appeared fake and forced – perhaps because it wasn't part of Tolkien's original story.
It's a great pity, because there were many things that I really loved about the Hobbit, including scenes such as the ones at Bilbo's home at the beginning of the film, Rivendell and the reading of the Runes, Smaug in his cavern of gold, Smaug destroying Lake-town, the visions of Erebor in AUJ, the Eagles, the depiction of Thorin's madness and his very well-played character, Beorn's home, the quiet moment between Gandalf and Bilbo at the end. The main cast was also very good (for Gandalf, Thorin and Bilbo especially), and very well played. The costumes were excellent. However, for me it was all wasted because the things I did not like stand out so much.
I doubt whether I'll be watching The Hobbit again anytime soon. I will watch LotR again.
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Ingwion
Lorien
Oct 30 2016, 2:56pm
Post #43 of 53
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I wholeheartedly disagree about your last point
[In reply to]
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The music in LotR wrapped itself around every scene – it was utterly beautiful. But in the Hobbit none of it is memorable for me, merely serving as a quiet background that is neither here nor there.
Have you ever listened to it? It is nothing short of beautiful. But of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, unless you were just fishing around for negative things to say about The Hobbit.
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Oct 30 2016, 3:44pm
Post #44 of 53
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The music in LotR wrapped itself around every scene – it was utterly beautiful. But in the Hobbit none of it is memorable for me, merely serving as a quiet background that is neither here nor there. Have you ever listened to it? It is nothing short of beautiful. But of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, unless you were just fishing around for negative things to say about The Hobbit.
Strange reply. I SAID that this is my opinion – so why accuse someone aggressively that they are 'just fishing around for negative things to say about the Hobbit'. I don't need to 'fish around'. The opinions I express are wholly my own, based on seeing the films several times, which included listening to the music. I am entitled to my own negative opinions, just as you are entitled to your positive ones.
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Ingwion
Lorien
Oct 30 2016, 3:50pm
Post #45 of 53
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Of course you are entitled to your own opinions, which is why I followed
It is nothing short of beautiful. with
But of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion
And sorry, but I did not aggressively accuse you of anything. I didn't mean to be aggressive, but looking back at my reply I can see why it may have appeared so. I apologise for any misunderstanding. I stated my opinion, and I asked if you had ever listened to it in disbelief that anyone wouldn't like it, and not in aggressiveness or anything else.
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Oct 30 2016, 3:55pm
Post #46 of 53
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Thank you – and I apologise too, for the knee-jerk reaction.
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Ingwion
Lorien
Oct 30 2016, 4:18pm
Post #47 of 53
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I should have thought before I posted 
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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Ingwion
Lorien
Oct 30 2016, 4:27pm
Post #48 of 53
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Going back to the original point, I came across a post there now, which might explain why you didn't find it memorable.
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=886660#886660
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
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Glorfindela
Valinor
Oct 30 2016, 5:10pm
Post #49 of 53
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The link doesn't take me to anything. However, to explain further, a couple of years after the LotR films came out, all three were shown (consecutively, over a period of three years, so one a year) at the Royal Albert Hall in London. The huge auditorium was absolutely packed in each case. The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra played the music, and the films were shown on a gigantic screen. Before the showings, Howard Shore gave a talk about the music and how it had been produced. He discussed the variety of instruments used to produce the music, which included some that had been made specially for the films, and others that were (from memory) 'resurrected' instruments from the medieval period, etc. It was clear that he had put a great deal of thought into how to integrate the right music into particular scenes, and this is one of the reasons why I feel the LotR music is so 'wrapped around' the scenes.
By contrast, the closest occasion when I experience this in the Hobbit is probably when the Eagles are flying at the end of AUJ. The Shire theme is familiar, and the song of the Dwarves in AUJ (not Howard Shore?) is fabulous. Apart from that, though, for me the music just doesn't have the 'heart' in it that the LotR music has. It is not unpleasant, and may even be very good – but it is not, for me, memorable or tied as well to scenes as the LotR music is.
It is possible that Howard Shore simply wasn't able to have the opportunity/time or whatever to do what he did with the LotR music – to hone the music around the film.
As an aside, the last time I heard a piece of music from LotR was a year ago, in a loo at Heathrow Airport. I instantly thought of the Shire and its Hobbitses. None of the music from the Hobbit would have that effect on me – and if I heard it I wouldn't recognise it for what it was or connect it to the films.
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Oct 30 2016, 5:15pm)
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Ingwion
Lorien
Oct 30 2016, 5:15pm
Post #50 of 53
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This link might work
http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=886660#886660
But anyway, I see where you are coming from. I think it would be very hard for a person to enjoy/appreciate the music when the person does not like the actual movies.
It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.
It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien
(This post was edited by Ingwion on Oct 30 2016, 5:22pm)
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