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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
How can people travel so fast?
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DainPig
Gondor


Oct 9 2016, 2:14am

Post #1 of 53 (1667 views)
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How can people travel so fast? Can't Post

Tauriel: Gundabad?
Legolas: a orc stronghold in the far north of the Misty Moutains.

This is from The Battle of the Five Alfr- Armies. Legolas says this line in the same they the Esgaroth people left the lake shore. We only see the two elves again after the mithril. How much time must have passed, a few days? A week? So, I need a week to travel from Laketown to Gundabad? Okay.

Now comes the thing: the next time we see Legolas and Tauriel again is just after the arriving of Gandalf at Dale which is one day before the Battle of the Five Armies. So during the battle there they are, Tauriel and his blond friend. They needed of a few days to travel to Gundabad but came back in just one day? How can this make sense at all?

Change my view, please.



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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 9 2016, 3:24am

Post #2 of 53 (1605 views)
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I've been complaining about this for ages. [In reply to] Can't Post

Long Lake to Gundabad: about 400 miles.

Gundabad to Erebor: about the same.

Mounted on good elven-bred horses, Legolas and Tauriel might be able to cover as much as 40 or 50 miles per day (although that's incredibly optimistic). So, they should have turned up at Dale between 2 and 3 weeks (or longer) after leaving the shore of the lake. A month might be more realistic. PJ cheated a lot.

Keep in mind that the Battle of Five Armies was certainly more than a day or two after the death of Smaug. Just getting the survivors to Dale might have taken as much as a week as they would have had to travel slowly (in the book, the combined force of Elves and Men arrived at Dale about 2 weeks after the destruction of Lake-town; and they did not have the old, sick and injured with them).

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 9 2016, 3:26am)


malickfan
Gondor

Oct 9 2016, 12:38pm

Post #3 of 53 (1565 views)
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Is there any hard evidence in the films the distances and time scale are similar to the books? [In reply to] Can't Post

I haven't watched any of The Hobbit films in a couple of years, but from memory doesn't it all take place over a few weeks (instead of the year or so from the novel), Gandalf goes back and forth over the Misty Mountains (evidently having more luck avoiding the stone giants that people thought were a legend for some reason despite their massive size...) several times in the trilogy and still arrives in time for the BOTFA, and there isn't really indication of the seasons passing or references to a map.

(One of my pet peeves with all six films, Middle Earth just felt smaller than it did from reading the books)

The LOTR films also played fast and loose with the distances and geography of the Middle Earth map, plot was compressed and so were the distances so it's nothing new...








Smaug the iron
Gondor


Oct 9 2016, 1:04pm

Post #4 of 53 (1564 views)
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13 months [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I haven't watched any of The Hobbit films in a couple of years, but from memory doesn't it all take place over a few weeks (instead of the year or so from the novel)

In the films Bilbo has bin gone for 13 months. The hobbit at the auction confirms this.


malickfan
Gondor

Oct 9 2016, 1:08pm

Post #5 of 53 (1561 views)
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Where were those 13 months spent though? [In reply to] Can't Post

They certainly don't spend weeks or months in Laketown, lost in Mirkwood or Thranduil's prisons, and as they can see Erebor clearly from the Misty Mountains at the end of AUJ it couldn't have been more than a few hundred miles away...








MyWeeLadGimli
Lorien

Oct 9 2016, 2:36pm

Post #6 of 53 (1538 views)
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They are supposed to be the same as the book [In reply to] Can't Post

The maps shown in the films are quite accurate, so at least in theory Middle-Earth's geography should be the same. And we do see time passage in the journey; the Company leave in April according to Bilbo's calendar, they read the Moon Runes on Midsummer's Eve, the leaves in Mirkwood suggest that it's fall at that point, and they get into the mountain at the start of winter. Assuming Bilbo stayed for awhile at Erebor, Beorn's House, and/or Rivendell on the way back, 13 months works out just fine.

Having said that, there are a lot of wonky time issues in the films. Radagast in particular seems able to show up anywhere at any time.


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 9 2016, 2:39pm

Post #7 of 53 (1537 views)
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Peter Jackson [In reply to] Can't Post

Just doesn't care about the exact timeline and how long it takes people to travel to various places. And I'm ok with that. I don't think that geographical accuracy should come before the pacing of the film


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 9 2016, 2:44pm

Post #8 of 53 (1530 views)
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Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is there any hard evidence in the films the distances and time scale are similar to the books?


We can estimate the time it took Frodo and his companions to reach Rivendell in FotR to arrive on the same date (minus the year) when they reach Imladris in the book. We can similarly gauge the amount of time it look Thorin and Company to reach Rivendell and guess that they covered a similar distance than they did in the original story. But more direct evidence is Gandalf's description of the size of Mirkwood which is take directly from the book, confirming the scale.


In Reply To
I haven't watched any of The Hobbit films in a couple of years, but from memory doesn't it all take place over a few weeks (instead of the year or so from the novel)...


It feels like that, but no. The Unexpected Party is in the Spring. Thorin & Company arrive in Rivendell in time for Midsummer. They reach Lake-town in late September (on September 28 according to Bard's calendar). PJ does cheat a lot, though, with travel times--Legolas and Tauriel's journey to and from Gundabad being an especially good example.


In Reply To
The LOTR films also played fast and loose with the distances and geography of the Middle Earth map, plot was compressed and so were the distances so it's nothing new...


I can only think of one good example of where the times and distance are really at odds: Gandalf's visit to Isengard and subsequent imprisonment by Saruman. The Grey Pilgrim, in the film, could not possibly have been able to travel to Isengard and expect to reach Bree before Frodo and Sam would arrive there. The internal logic of the movie fails here.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 9 2016, 2:55pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 9 2016, 2:50pm

Post #9 of 53 (1527 views)
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We have to assume much of the time. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
They certainly don't spend weeks or months in Laketown, lost in Mirkwood or Thranduil's prisons, and as they can see Erebor clearly from the Misty Mountains at the end of AUJ it couldn't have been more than a few hundred miles away...


Thorin confirms that the Dwarves' New Year (and Durin's Day) falls shortly before the start of Winter. And we know that the Battle of Five Armies happens some time after Durin's Day. So we know that we've seen the passing of three seasons over the course of the films even if it doesn't really feel like it. And we can guess that Bilbo and Gandalf wintered with Beorn as they did in the book. So we can technically account for the thirteen months of Bilbo's travels.

We can chalk up the visibility of the Lonely Mountain from the top of the Carrock to dramatic license, but you're right: it either should not have been visible at all or should have been little more than a dot in the distance.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 9 2016, 2:53pm)


wizzardly
Rohan


Oct 9 2016, 2:51pm

Post #10 of 53 (1525 views)
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Just another book detail PJ didn't feel was important enough to bother with... [In reply to] Can't Post

and truthfully, this is one issue I don't really have that much of a problem with. There are far far more egregious issues to take offense with in this adaptation.


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 9 2016, 2:53pm

Post #11 of 53 (1524 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see why anyone that had any regard for the Hobbit trilogy would care about this detail. If you dislike this, then you must detest the rest. I, personally, like TH


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 9 2016, 2:57pm

Post #12 of 53 (1517 views)
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Wrong! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I don't see why anyone that had any regard for the Hobbit trilogy would care about this detail. If you dislike this, then you must detest the rest. I, personally, like TH


One can like the movies over all and still have serious issues with some (or even many) of the details. It is called critical thinking and more emphasis should be put on teaching it in our schools.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 9 2016, 2:59pm

Post #13 of 53 (1509 views)
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Sorry [In reply to] Can't Post

I just thought that if a minor inconsistency like that bothered someone they would hate the Tauriel, Alfrid stuff


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


LSF
Gondor

Oct 9 2016, 3:00pm

Post #14 of 53 (1508 views)
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None of this bothers me [In reply to] Can't Post

Because I understand that we are not seeing every day. And I'd rather not have "one week later" "one day later" "6 hours later" kind of captions. If there is an inconsistency, then I'm too involved with the drama and action in the film to really care.


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 9 2016, 3:03pm

Post #15 of 53 (1503 views)
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Hear hear [In reply to] Can't Post

The captions that we got (60 years earlier etc.) were enough. I hate captions. Especially on middle-earth movies


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


wizzardly
Rohan


Oct 9 2016, 3:03pm

Post #16 of 53 (1497 views)
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I find the fact that the Longbeards don't have beards to be far greater offense... [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean you have that staring you in the face the entire trilogy. The passage of time not following the text is a little easier to ignore imo.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 9 2016, 3:03pm

Post #17 of 53 (1501 views)
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It depends... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I just thought that if a minor inconsistency like that bothered someone they would hate the Tauriel, Alfrid stuff


I was fine with the basic idea of Tauriel, but didn't think that the subplot with her and Kili worked very well. Similarly, I liked the interaction between Alfrid and the Master of Lake-town, but after the destruction of Esgaroth, I thought that Alfrid was written too broadly. He was used for too much comedy relief.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 9 2016, 3:05pm

Post #18 of 53 (1496 views)
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The kind of humour I enjoyed in the Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

was the brilliant mannerisms used by Martin Freeman, not the cheesy Alfrid stuff


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 9 2016, 3:06pm

Post #19 of 53 (1489 views)
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That's you're biggest problem with TH? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


wizzardly
Rohan


Oct 9 2016, 3:10pm

Post #20 of 53 (1488 views)
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No... [In reply to] Can't Post

but it annoyed me more than the travel time thing.


LSF
Gondor

Oct 9 2016, 3:15pm

Post #21 of 53 (1491 views)
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captions [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the "60 years earlier" one was necessary with how they structured it with having Old Bilbo telling the story. We do need a sense of how much younger he's supposed to be, and the amount of time between Hobbit and LOTR. But otherwise, it would've been distracting to have any time captions during the journey. I don't remember any others other than the "60 years" one in Hobbit?

In the LOTR Appendices, they did discuss doing location captions the first time we see any new location. I'm glad they decided it was too distracting and not needed. But I don't generally mind captions in movies, as long as they're done well.


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 9 2016, 3:25pm

Post #22 of 53 (1478 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

there may have been a caption before or after Bree in DOS... not sure though.....
I usually hate captions in movies, mostly because I hate the fonts they're done in, but that's probably only me...
Thank goodness they didn't do captions in LOTR, I would have hated it.


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


LSF
Gondor

Oct 9 2016, 3:32pm

Post #23 of 53 (1472 views)
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ah, right [In reply to] Can't Post

"Bree, on the border of the Shire" and "12 months later" I think. That's another one, that, since it was a scene before the journey. I think we need something to establish that. Any during the actual journey would've been too much.


Ingwion
Lorien


Oct 9 2016, 3:34pm

Post #24 of 53 (1469 views)
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Because [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it would be too confusing for people who had no interest in The Hobbit, I was ok with the absolutely necessary ones. I'm glad they limited it to that.


It was a foggy day in London, and the fog was heavy and dark. Animate London, with smarting eyes and irritated lungs, was blinking, wheezing, and choking; inanimate London was a sooty spectre, divided in purpose between being visible and invisible, and so being wholly neither. - Our Mutual Friend, Charles Dickens.

It is said by the Eldar that in water there lives yet the echo of the Music of the Ainur more than in any substance that is in this Earth; and many of the Children of Ilúvatar hearken still unsated to the voices of the Sea, and yet know not for what they listen. - The Silmarillion, J. R. R. Tolkien


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 9 2016, 3:42pm

Post #25 of 53 (1464 views)
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Flashbacks within flashbacks. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"Bree, on the border of the Shire" and "12 months later" I think. That's another one, that, since it was a scene before the journey. I think we need something to establish that. Any during the actual journey would've been too much.


Yes, those captions were useful, especially since in Tolkien's legendarium Gandalf's encounter with Thorin took place on March 15 in the same year as the quest, not the previous July.

"He who lies artistically, treads closer to the truth than ever he knows." -- Favorite proverb of the wizard Ningauble of the Seven Eyes

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 9 2016, 3:44pm)

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